Last 10 rounds of Battle

[Rumblood]

How did it end?

1: Xbow hiding in hay - No archers left alive
2: Thrower running around on outskirts of map - No archers left alive
3: Lancer last alive - No archers left alive
4: Thrower last - No archers left alive
5: 1H/shield - No archers left alive
6: Thrower last - No archers left alive
7: Last 8 players all melee w/ xbow
8: 1h shielder last - 1 archer left alive on winning team
9: Thrower last - no archers left alive
10: 1h/shielder/xbow last - 1 archer left on winning team


Notice a trend? All that kiting? Where is it?

[oprah_winfrey]

How did it end?

1: Xbow hiding in hay - No archers left alive
2: Thrower running around on outskirts of map - No archers left alive
4: Thrower last - No archers left alive
6: Thrower last - No archers left alive
9: Thrower last - no archers left alive


Notice a trend? All that kiting? Where is it?

Sounds like kiting to me...but I am sure you are talking about archers kiting, in which case they kite quite often.

[Joker86]

Notice a trend? All that kiting? Where is it?

It was removed in the last patch.

[Gurnisson]

It was removed in the last patch.

[oprah_winfrey]

Btw grann pappy, iirc your archer only had 3 athletics, so you werent a kiting archer anyway. As such, shouldnt you be happy about the patch since you get more wpf now (buffed)

[Rumblood]

Btw grann pappy, iirc your archer only had 3 athletics, so you werent a kiting archer anyway. As such, shouldnt you be happy about the patch since you get more wpf now (buffed)

Actually, I had 9 athletics last build and generally like to have at least 7, but you are right, I wasn't kiting anyhow. I used those athletics to run out into the middle of an open field to dance with the ponies. It was fair. I could dodge well enough to avoid 95% of horse bumps and lances. When it came to melee, I had enough footwork to get those unexpected dash in and mace to the face options for the occasional melee kill. It also let me easily maneuver around my teammates who don't care where the archer is drawing his bow at.
All of those things are 100% legitimate for the build, so yes, I get really annoyed that I lost my playstyle because of way too much complaining about something that was a very very very minor issue to a very very small segment of the population. 

Until it gets reverted, I'm going to do the occasional HA generation, always riding out of range, never even coming close to engaging with melee. I think to be spiteful, I'll also alter the order of my hit list from HX/HA, Xbow, Archer, thrower, melee. To melee, melee, xbow, melee, HX, melee, thrower, archer. If they nerf the HA, I'll switch to a HX generation and do the same thing.

Don't worry, I can adapt. I look forward to swimming in the newest river of tears.

It was removed in the last patch.

What I didn't mention Joker, is that the reason no archers were left alive, is because there were ZERO archers on the server the first 5 or 6 rounds. So yeah, I guess they were removed last patch 

[Joker86]

Btw, just for your information, I do consider kiting during the round as kiting as well, not only at the end. And archer is a dangerous enemy, and I don't see why I should attack him at the end and go for other enemies, while he can constantly attack me as long as he can see me. That's close to the roofcamping problem.

Other classes have hard counters, while archers could literally attack anybody and had no particular counter at all. Complaining infantry was served off with the good advice to adapt and get a shield (= changing the class) or to not go for archers (= being dumb/suicidal). How about archers having to adapt now and bring a melee weapon? Live with your hard counter (shielders), as we have to live with ours. You can always start creating a "default habit" on the servers to make some kind of "archer nests", which can protect each other by concentrated fire on enemy targets, making it unneccesary to run away or fight in melee. Infantry makes clusters, archer should make nests. Adapt. (See how equipment change suggestions suck?)

I just want to add that I am in no way a fan of the latest changes to archery, but it's more the "how" which annoys me, not the "what", because if the devs still stick to battle mode in its current form there needs to be done something about kiting. (Btw. just inbe4 the suggestion comes up: no, increasing archer melee skills will neither help motivating most archers to fight in melee nor will it contribute to the overall class balance, just make archers stronger than they deserve balance-wise when they are finally forced to go melee).

If it would be me I would change the game mode to conquest, change the upkeep system to an equipment restriction system which actually works and buff archers and cavalry again. Just to let you know.

Btw. why does Gravoth_iii minus my post but when Gurnisson quotes me he gives a +?   

What I didn't mention Joker, is that the reason no archers were left alive, is because there were ZERO archers on the server the first 5 or 6 rounds. So yeah, I guess they were removed last patch 

Remember the headshot-patch, where body damage got lowered and headshot damage increased? For some time we almost had no archers left... for some time...

[Rumblood]

Remember the headshot-patch, where body damage got lowered and headshot damage increased? For some time we almost had no archers left... for some time...

Hey I stayed! But then again, I had a MW Tatar bow and 175 wpf 

[Kafein]

How did it end?

1: Xbow hiding in hay - No archers left alive
2: Thrower running around on outskirts of map - No archers left alive
3: Lancer last alive - No archers left alive
4: Thrower last - No archers left alive
5: 1H/shield - No archers left alive
6: Thrower last - No archers left alive
7: Last 8 players all melee w/ xbow
8: 1h shielder last - 1 archer left alive on winning team
9: Thrower last - no archers left alive
10: 1h/shielder/xbow last - 1 archer left on winning team


Notice a trend? All that kiting? Where is it?

Looks like the patch did its job to me.

This is what happened in the 10 last Battle rounds before the patch :

1: 4 shielders dead - 3 archers alive
2: 1 melee cav dead - 1 archer alive
3: 2 pole and 3 2h dead - 1 archer alive
4: 1 shielder dead - 2 archers alive
5: 3 melee cav dead - 1 HA alive
6: 1 2h and one shielder dead - 2 archers alive
7: 2 pole dead - one xbowman alive
8: 1 archer dead - 2 shielders alive (although there was also 14 2h and pole guys before engaging the archer)
9: Shielder dead - 1 pole alive
10: One thrower dead - 1 shielder alive

[Rumblood]

You missed the part where I said there were zero archers to be around to be alive 

What is obvious too is that this patch made the actual problem worse. What happened to those archers? Did they take up the path of the pure melee? Of course not, why should they?

The problem with ranged never was archers, kiting or non. It was the easy pocket ranged xbow that allows you to have all of your awesome melee skills and weapons and ARMOR and be able to kill at ranged with almost no downside. Melee doesn't even need the WPF from WM, but if they got some just toss it into the xbow for a bit more accuracy (not that you need it). They also fixed throwers (hurray!), but now those fully armored and skilled melee characters simply have another choice. With 5 WM you can have 100 wpf in throwing and 120 wpf in your melee weapon, more than adequate for BOTH.

That is what fills the server now.

So they took out the Archer hybrid, and simply replaced it with two other options.

THIS IS THE REAL FIX:

Make WPF matter for melee. Don't leave them with 100 WPF left over to toss into a ranged weapon. Make WPF matter for xbows. Don't let people be proficient in melee AND ranged.

In short, REMOVE HYBRIDS.

What you will then be left with is wimpy archers at range, the rare dedicated xbower, a couple throwers, and the rest infantry and cavalry. Ranged spam will be reduced by 75%, I guarantee it.

Then maybe you guys can get over your hard on for killing the archer class. 

[oprah_winfrey]

Oddly enough, I retired into archery two days ago.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

The problem with ranged never was archers, kiting or non. It was the easy pocket ranged xbow that allows you to have all of your awesome melee skills and weapons and ARMOR and be able to kill at ranged with almost no downside. Melee doesn't even need the WPF from WM, but if they got some just toss it into the xbow for a bit more accuracy (not that you need it). They also fixed throwers (hurray!), but now those fully armored and skilled melee characters simply have another choice. With 5 WM you can have 100 wpf in throwing and 120 wpf in your melee weapon, more than adequate for BOTH.

That is what fills the server now.

So they took out the Archer hybrid, and simply replaced it with two other options.

THIS IS THE REAL FIX:

Make WPF matter for melee. Don't leave them with 100 WPF left over to toss into a ranged weapon. Make WPF matter for xbows. Don't let people be proficient in melee AND ranged.

Add in a "your proficiency is too low" for melee weapons.

[Kafein]

You missed the part where I said there were zero archers to be around to be alive 

What is obvious too is that this patch made the actual problem worse. What happened to those archers? Did they take up the path of the pure melee? Of course not, why should they?

The problem with ranged never was archers, kiting or non. It was the easy pocket ranged xbow that allows you to have all of your awesome melee skills and weapons and ARMOR and be able to kill at ranged with almost no downside. Melee doesn't even need the WPF from WM, but if they got some just toss it into the xbow for a bit more accuracy (not that you need it). They also fixed throwers (hurray!), but now those fully armored and skilled melee characters simply have another choice. With 5 WM you can have 100 wpf in throwing and 120 wpf in your melee weapon, more than adequate for BOTH.

That is what fills the server now.

So they took out the Archer hybrid, and simply replaced it with two other options.

THIS IS THE REAL FIX:

Make WPF matter for melee. Don't leave them with 100 WPF left over to toss into a ranged weapon. Make WPF matter for xbows. Don't let people be proficient in melee AND ranged.

In short, REMOVE HYBRIDS.

What you will then be left with is wimpy archers at range, the rare dedicated xbower, a couple throwers, and the rest infantry and cavalry. Ranged spam will be reduced by 75%, I guarantee it.

Then maybe you guys can get over your hard on for killing the archer class. 

This posts highlights how you have no understanding of the problem.


Very few melee players complain about xbows because they don't kite. How OP they are or how OP archers are has no relevance to how important it is to fix kiting. At all. When kiting is gone for good or becomes a negligible issue (see HA/HC), then we can start talking about balance.

[Tears of Destiny]

Very few melee players complain about xbows because they don't kite

The fuck they don't, visit NA where the majority of the dedicated crossbowmen have 7 or 9 athletics and kite the ever-living daylights out of every idiot stupid enough to chase them.

[Tzar]

How did it end?

1: Xbow hiding in hay - No archers left alive
2: Thrower running around on outskirts of map - No archers left alive
3: Lancer last alive - No archers left alive
4: Thrower last - No archers left alive
5: 1H/shield - No archers left alive
6: Thrower last - No archers left alive
7: Last 8 players all melee w/ xbow
8: 1h shielder last - 1 archer left alive on winning team
9: Thrower last - no archers left alive
10: 1h/shielder/xbow last - 1 archer left on winning team


Notice a trend? All that kiting? Where is it?

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