Author Topic: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc  (Read 6339 times)

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Offline Shaksie

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 07:39:04 am »
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Ahhh fair enough. Yeah people might cry about this request but I think it is sorely needed, I've always wanted a 94 speed two handed weapon with a good stab. I also love non cut damage types :). Perhaps they could have a base swing damage type of cut and a secondary mode of blunt? (With no other changes, I hate how secondary modes are always unnecessarily bad)
I would love to use a Kanzer, it also has the possibility to look completely awesome with and without Finalboss' heirloom pack, so I would most likely want a loomed one straight away.
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Offline Shaksie

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 07:43:23 am »
+2
Stab animations would need to be fixed for these to be viable though, imo.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 07:49:31 am »
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Ahhh fair enough. Yeah people might cry about this request but I think it is sorely needed, I've always wanted a 94 speed two handed weapon with a good stab. I also love non cut damage types :). Perhaps they could have a base swing damage type of cut and a secondary mode of blunt? (With no other changes, I hate how secondary modes are always unnecessarily bad)
I would love to use a Kanzer, it also has the possibility to look completely awesome with and without Finalboss' heirloom pack, so I would most likely want a loomed one straight away.

Yes, that is what I would prefer as well.  Low base cut in regular mode, and turning the sword to use the blunter end for its alt mode that has blunt damage + possibly knockdown.  Could be too complicated or end up not making sense with the model chosen, though.  Thing is it was either a dull-sided spike like a Goedendag, or was made to have a sharpened edge for slashing but was still mostly a thrusting, plate piercing weapon.  I think it would do the Estoc concept justice to have both options in the weapons, though.

Instead, every sword just has a useless halfswording mode that uses polearm WPF.  It usually gives weapons stats similar to what I am suggesting, but removes an overhead, uses polearm animations, and there is no reason for a polearm user to use them over an actual polearm.
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Offline Shaksie

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 07:59:22 am »
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Yes, that is what I would prefer as well.  Low base cut in regular mode, and turning the sword to use the blunter end for its alt mode that has blunt damage + possibly knockdown.  Could be too complicated or end up not making sense with the model chosen, though.  Thing is it was either a dull-sided spike like a Goedendag, or was made to have a sharpened edge for slashing but was still mostly a thrusting, plate piercing weapon.  I think it would do the Estoc concept justice to have both options in the weapons, though.

Instead, every sword just has a useless halfswording mode that uses polearm WPF.  It usually gives weapons stats similar to what I am suggesting, but removes an overhead, uses polearm animations, and there is no reason for a polearm user to use them over an actual polearm.

True, they could have one sharp edge and one blunt one, but I don't know if that would work with this game's graphics haha.
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Offline Havoco

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 08:27:52 am »
+1
This weapon sounds really cool and would fit into crpg nicely. I think floris mod has these as well.
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 09:51:23 am »
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Did my idea just get diggled?
You got totally Diggled there! 8-)
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Offline Teeth

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2012, 12:49:24 pm »
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This weapon has a huge niche to fill for the 2h class. There should be varying sizes of which the small ones should be usable with shield stab only or on horseback with shield and stab only. Swings should be very limited as it is an edgeless sword, completely geared towards stabbing. Therefore weak blunt swings comparable to spears. Stabs should be amazing though damage wise, otherwise its just another greatsword with slightly different properties instead of being a weapon with a completely new role.

My proposed stats:

Estoc   
30p thrust
17b swing
97 spd
104 reach
1.8 weight

Usable with shield and usable on horseback, both only stab though with one hand. With the 2h stab and this speed the low blunt damage swings seem in order to not make it blow spears out of the water. Secondary 2h mode with crazy 32p seems in order.

What the fuck is a kanzer and what has it do with Russia?

Great Estoc
33p thrust
20b swing
88 speed
140 reach
2.5 weight

Make it a flamberge type weapon. Polearm stab, overhead, leftswing with a 2h rightswing. Part of the reason why the blade was non edged was so it could be halfsworded for a more powerful thrust. There were some very long Estoc's according to Wikipedia. Besides, the 2h stab animation is retarded for delivering strong stabs anyway.

Alternatively if it has to be using the 2h animations.

Great Estoc
31p thrust
20b swing
90 speed
125 reach
2.5 weight

No knockdown for any of these weapons, they were really thin and slender blades which were very light.

Offline Vibe

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2012, 12:54:59 pm »
+2
Alternatively if it has to be using the 2h animations.

Great Estoc
31p thrust
20b swing
90 speed
125 reach
2.5 weight

Awesome, 7ath+ backpedal outrange 31p stab spam, mega fun, pls add

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2012, 02:15:10 am »
+1
I would prefer a Great Estoc to be shorter, with the 2hand thrust animation, but sideswings disabled.  So its an awlpike type weapon for 2handers.  Two-handed swords with polearm animations are lame when you can just use a polearm instead.  It would basically be a support 2hander for line fighting, like all the new polearms added with the last patch.  No sideswings would justify a 2hand thrust animation and above 30 pierce damage.

Kanzer is the Russian word for this kind of weapon, and I figured it could be more like a Goedendag/Two-Handed Sword/War Spear hybrid in stats but with much better pierce and much weaker swing than the Goedendag or Two-Handed Sword.  Basically being between Great Sword and Sword of War in the weapon list.  It should have better stats than War Spear but cost twice as much and not be usable with a shield.

My suggestions for Estoc are basically the same as yours, I imagine it as being the Longsword type weapon, but would prefer it to have stats more like an Espada than a Spear, for fast 1vs1 combat.

So the Great Estoc would be slow, long, high damage, two-directional stabbing weapon with two-hand animations.  Estoc would be a duelist weapon comparable to to a Rapier, which could be used as a cutting-edged weapon for swings.  Kanzer is just somewhere in between, a non shit version of Goedendag with more War Spear esque stats.

High thrust and half-swording certainly should go hand-in hand, but they all use polearm WPF thus are worthless and no one uses them at all.  Would not want to see it mandatory on a high thrust 2hander as I'd rather just be a polearm character in that case.
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2012, 06:31:53 pm »
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My short sword cost 1000 gold and has 29p on the stab...2handers really are needing a pointy thing tbh. Lets Esto(p) talking about it and do it!
I don't know enough

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Offline Strider

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2012, 06:59:52 pm »
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This is great! 2 handed weapons has the least amount of equipment to choose from than any other melee class. Need to add more!

Offline WITCHCRAFT

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2012, 09:00:24 pm »
+1
Would it be possible for the overhead to be a long/weak 2h thrust and the actual thrust to be a short/strong halfsword thrust? Maybe with halfsword side swings.

It would be a cool addition but I feel that it would not fit with the default 2h animations very well. It was meant to be wielded differently than a regular european two-handed sword.

Also agree that it would be really wonky on horseback. Wouldn't you break your arm stabbing like that?
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Offline autobus

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 12:13:52 am »
+2
Get item balance team approval on that and i'll do the model right away.

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 12:06:01 pm »
-1
This is great! 2 handed weapons has the least amount of equipment to choose from than any other melee class. Need to add more!

The sarcasm is strong with this one.
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Offline Sarpton

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Re: New two-handed thrusting swords: Estoc
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 05:56:07 pm »
+1
The sarcasm is strong with this one.

But...they actually do?  That is a real thing.
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