Author Topic: 1h/polearm cav  (Read 2835 times)

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Offline Felix

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1h/polearm cav
« on: April 20, 2011, 12:39:56 pm »
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I am gonna start a character with the next build type

Lvl 31
Str - 18
Agi - 21 (6 skill points converted)
P.Strike - 6
Riding - 7
Shield - 6
W.Master - 7
HP 53

One Hand WPF : 140
Polearm WPF: around 112-114

I think it will be pretty viable hybrid. Surely, i could use some points in athletic, but i need high shield skill. Or not?

Offline Christo

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 12:55:51 pm »
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If you want to use that 1h a lot in melee, then more shield skill, the better.

I use polearms only so I  have a 0req shield, saves me from 1 or 2 deadly strikes/shots.
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Offline Felix

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 01:02:14 pm »
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If you want to use that 1h a lot in melee, then more shield skill, the better.

I use polearms only so I  have a 0req shield, saves me from 1 or 2 deadly strikes/shots.

Yes, i want to fight on foot too. But isn't 6 shield too much? Should i decrease it to 5?

Some more thoughts about build

I figured out, that reaching 31 lvl might be a trouble and even if i ever reach it, i will spend lot of time playing as 30 lvl character. Which way should i go?
This one:
Lvl 30

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53
Unused skill points: 5
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Athletics: 0
Riding: 6

Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 130
Polearm: 107

I have spare 5 skill points that i could invest in iron flesh or athletics. When (if) i get 31-rt lvl attribute point is pretty much lost and will have no influence on my build. Also this build (with ath) will allow me to fight on foot (if horse is killed, in towns or in case i dont have enough money for horse keeping :D)

But if i want to go max wpf, the second build will be more appropriate

Strength: 18
Agility: 20
Hit points: 53
Unused skill points: 1
Converted: 6
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Riding: 6


Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 130
Polearm: 107

And when i get 31 lvl, i invest into agi and raise riding and wm to 7, with 140 One hand WPF and 115 Polearm

Which one is better? The first one is more versatile, the second one is more cav dedicated.



Offline Christo

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 01:04:54 pm »
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I'd go for the versatile build. You won't be useless after losing your horsie, and can still kick some ass in Melee Combat.

(I'm speaking from an experience, I use a 19/18 Lancer/Polearm build on 30 and it's fun,
you won't be a tank/spammer but can do anything well.)

But it's your character, not mine.  :wink:
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 01:07:36 pm by Christo »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 01:37:37 pm »
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I think I'm part of the very few last 1h/polearm cav players out there, so there's are tips you might want to read :

First of all, plan your build for level 30. You will likely retire when you hit 31 anyway, thus you will spend half you gaming time at level 30. More importantly, never have a build with attributes not being multiples of 3. Skills are much more important (even more for hybrid classes with shield like this one) than attribute points. As far as I'm concerned, 18/18 balance works very well for this class.

My build atm :

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 18
    * Hit points: 53

    * Converted: 2
    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 6
    * Shield: 6
    * Athletics: 6
    * Riding: 6
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 5

    * One Handed: 113
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 113
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1

With this build, the main problem is the longevity in combat. Not having any points in IF and being forced to use relatively low armor. 1h/pole horsemans probably have one of the highest fixed equipment cost there is : horse, shield, good 1h and lance will easily cost you 25k, so you have to fine tune equipment costs and keep them in mind as one of your priorities when choosing your build and equipment. Low armor and no IF will cause you to die in 3 arrows. A cavalry shield (for roleplay, style and aggressivity) will not protect from arrows very well, but has good armor and HP values.

I haven't tried to reduce shield skill or athletics, but I know that decreasing ath will likely make the char defenseless on foot. Shield skill is an interesting option to explore for sparing some skill points and put them in IF, but setting it to 3 (the minimum for a shielder IMO) for example will close the doors for the heavy footmen shields.

Your main advantage by being 1h/polearm is your ability to be an asset both on foot and on horse. If you want to be an efficient pure cav then 1h is nearly useless, so are shield and ath skills, but that's not my area. In that case, you should prefer whore horses like the sarranid. For a melee/cav hybrid, cheaper horses are better (tier 3+ horses are a pain to repair).

Offline Phazey

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 03:20:07 pm »
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Excellent post Kafein. I agree with most.

Just one thing: 1h cav can be good, even against other cav. But it's difficult, i admit. Using horse to bodyblock their horse, shield to block the incoming polearm stab, then turning in behind them gets you one or two free slashes at the other cav. But it's not easy and your horse (and shield) are at risk if you do that.

Can't fault the build you propose, but you might want to go 5 shield and 6 weapon mastery instead and get that 1h wpf up a bit more so you'll be just a bit faster with that 1h.

Offline Felix

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 03:39:44 pm »
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Thx for answers. Yeah, i will go versatile build 18/18 thing.

Kafein, i would rather make WM 6 and shield or ath - 5. One Handed - 130 and Polearm - 107.
Time to grind))

Offline Felix

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 03:44:00 pm »
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Ah! Kafein, guys, could you please advise me what weapons to use? Which 1h? Which lance?

Offline Christo

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 03:47:05 pm »
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Ah! Kafein, guys, could you please advise me what weapons to use? Which 1h? Which lance?

Heavy Lance. It's great in both cav vs cav, and cav vs inf situations. You can even score some lucky hits against Pikemen. I did.

For the one-hander, it's up to you. If you want to EZ-mode it, get a Pick, or Side Sword, heirloom it and win.

But there are loads of cool Onehanders, pick one that suits you.  :wink:
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Offline Phazey

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 03:53:11 pm »
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For slashing from mount: sarranid cav sword. Nothing beats 105 reach. But other 1h also work well from mount, like sarranid guard sword, nordic champion, etc.

On foot: like Christo says, plenty of good options to choose from. The maces and hammers are great, so are picks and ofcourse the many, many swords.

Heavy lance is the weapon of choice for most cav vs cav fights. But the normal lance and light lance are viable too. Faster but less reach.

Offline Huey Newton

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 04:15:46 pm »
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I am gonna start a character with the next build type

Lvl 31
Str - 18
Agi - 21 (6 skill points converted)
P.Strike - 6
Riding - 7
Shield - 6
W.Master - 7
HP 53

One Hand WPF : 140
Polearm WPF: around 112-114

I think it will be pretty viable hybrid. Surely, i could use some points in athletic, but i need high shield skill. Or not?

Heres my build. I like being effective infantry too


Strength   15   
Agility   21   
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 2
One Handed   132   [7 WPF cost]
Two Handed   1   [1 WPF cost] 
Polearm   120   [6 WPF cost]
Archery   1   [1 WPF cost] 
Crossbow   1   [1 WPF cost] 
Throwing   1   [1 WPF cost] 
Skills
Available points: 0
Ironflesh   2   
Power Strike   5   
Shield   6   
Athletics   6   
Riding   6   
Horse Archery   0   
Power Draw   0   
Power Throw   0   
Weapon master *   7   

Offline Kafein

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 10:37:59 pm »
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Excellent post Kafein. I agree with most.

Just one thing: 1h cav can be good, even against other cav. But it's difficult, i admit. Using horse to bodyblock their horse, shield to block the incoming polearm stab, then turning in behind them gets you one or two free slashes at the other cav. But it's not easy and your horse (and shield) are at risk if you do that.

Can't fault the build you propose, but you might want to go 5 shield and 6 weapon mastery instead and get that 1h wpf up a bit more so you'll be just a bit faster with that 1h.

Thank you.

You are right about 1h in cav vs cav situations, it is perfectly doable, but is only a "no-risk" option in certain very rare occasions (in many of which a lance would be of equal interest). Killing the rider and not the horse is usually very hard (but since many lancers are helpless without their beloved champion sarranid, well...). Good lancers will usually hit your horse anyway if you block while trying to stop them, it's a rather big sacrifice in exange of an opportunity of killing one enemy lancer.

Also, I chose to put 6 shield because I wanted to try the steel shield. Maybe simply taking one point from athletics and put it in WM could be better. I tend to equal 1h and pole wpf because I like to use other polearms too, like the pike. You really don't need more than 100 wpf for using the heavy lance afaik.

About shields, I see that you (on your char named Phazh) are often wearing a Huscarl shield on your back when you ride, do you really feel the difference in damage of ranged and likelyhood to be chosen as target ? It seems too expensive to me. Maybe a better option would be putting a very bad shield (though it's not so good-looking) on your back, it can't break and I think the coverage and protection are the same.



On the weapon choice, many 1h are pretty much the same, so choose the one you prefer. The best choices are obvious :

- Sarranid cav sword for the length.
- Military Hammer/Steel pick if you feel like being a trololo wtf douchebag.

But the differences are hidden in details of 1 or 2 lenght, damage and speed rating points. Don't forget that a one handed morningstar can be a devastating weapon with the speed bonus, and you will make less timing errors because the speed is so slow the blow stays longer in it's active phase. Furthermore, it really looks badass. But you'll need a "fighting" 1h too, resulting in more upkeep.

About lances, it can be a little more tricky than what you think. The heavy lance is really an obvious choice. But lances and light lances can have their place in cav battles too. They are simply better against infantry (unless you need the additional range, but even if you have it, you are better choosing another target), and they are also much faster than heavy lances. You can poke and chase other cavalry better, surprise some of them with subtle timing and maneuver. But your chances in frontal "joutes" versu decent lancers are scarse. Lighter lances are much more complicated to use and require much more time to kill, thus the best all-rounder option is the heavy lance, especially for low-maneuver horses and if you don't plan to focus on enemy cavalry (you should not), but don't forget the others.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 05:07:05 pm »
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First of all: 3 shield skill is more than enough for any cav player.

Secondly: with the wpf weight reduction in place and the oncoming nerf to hybrids, I don't recommend going 1hander+pole.
First of all, you have to sacrifise the 6 ironflesh for other skills, which is desastrous to your survivability. Secondly, you can't wear heavy armour without making both your weapons mediocre at both damage and speed compared to others.

I'd suggest going full polearm for cavalry, it's the best build, no doubt about it. Be sure to take a sidearm besides your heavy lance though, like a long hafted blade.
Don't mind the fish.

Offline Daergar

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 06:02:36 pm »
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My last gen was an 18/18 (at 30) 1h/shielder/cav with the mentioned 140 1h and the rest in polearm, 5 in riding for cata and 6 in WM and shield.

To be honest, I felt gimped compared to my current 21/15 shielder. Sure, the steel shield is nice, especially on horseback. The difference between 6 and 7 PS is probably a personal peeve but I notice the lack of it immediately.

And as said, hybrids are shafted come the patch so I'd recommend fullblown polearm and riding, just carry a secondary polearm for foot combat or learn how to hoplite really well. ;)

Offline Phazey

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Re: 1h/polearm cav
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2011, 12:46:14 pm »
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About shields, I see that you (on your char named Phazh) are often wearing a Huscarl shield on your back when you ride, do you really feel the difference in damage of ranged and likelyhood to be chosen as target ?

I play 1h + shield cav with two shields (plated shield and huscarl on my back). When i get dismounted, i:
  • sheathe weapon
  • drop plated shield
  • equip huscarl
  • unsheathe scimitar

With some practice, you can do this in the 'downtime' when your horse dies and you're falling down and getting up. When there are enemies close or an archer shooting at me, i sometimes wait with the unsheathing of my scimitar 'till after the first swing / arrow is blocked.

Because i go max athletics, my build only lacks the ironflesh a dedicated 1h + shield would have, but otherwise my build is exactly the same as an 1h+shield footman build. That allows me to be flexible, do good when dismounted or even choose not to go cav on cav-unfriendly maps.