War Spear / Red Tassel Spear Adjustment

[Vodner]

Prior to the removal of polestun, the war spear and red tassel spear were both competent weapons for 1v1 combat, as well as being decent for teamplay in battle. They were decent 1v1 because the low damage sideswings allowed for a followup stab on stun, and they were decent in battle because polearm stabs are a relatively safe attack to use near teammates.

Polestun was a terrible mechanic and I'm happy it's gone. That being said, without stun these spears are pretty much useless, except as hoplite weapons. I really think they could use an increase in sideswing damage to compensate for that loss of stun.

[Jarlek]

Personally I would prefer them to just become cheaper.

Kinda like the 2h axes. Not the best weapons, but very good for their price.

Right now the war spear costs a bit more than the longsword. That's just ridiculous.

Longsword:

(click to show/hide)

Longsword
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

6,660

War spear:

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War Spear
weapon length: 150
weight: 1.5
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 150
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 18 blunt
slots: 2

6,821

Also,
Morningstar:

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Morningstar
weapon length: 82
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 82
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 38 pierce
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

6,648

[Kafein]

The problem is not the weakness of the spears, but the OPness of the high tier polearms.

[Tydeus]

Personally I would prefer them to just become cheaper.

Also,
Morningstar:

(click to show/hide)

Morningstar
weapon length: 82
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 82
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 38 pierce
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

6,648

yeah, price is nothing but a joke in crpg, sadly.

[Tydeus]

The problem is not the weakness of the spears, but the OPness of the high tier polearms.

That would imply that the weaker spears are in a good spot, which I don't really think anyone would agree with. Use a war spear against a guy in plate armor, regardless of his weapon, you're at a significant disadvantage.

[Gravoth_iii]

A tad bit higher dmg on the thrust maybe, and a bit better side swings.. Nothing will make up for the lack of polestun though, was pretty important for spears in 1v1.

Also remove thrusts hitting earlier in animation, cant interrupt thrusts anymore when getting hugged. :/

[bredeus]

Since I remeber war spear got one speed nerf and one damage nerf in the past. Nowadays my mw warspear is as good as normal 2 years ago. With additional turn nerf isn't that easy to play anymore. I can only agree that this nerf was to make long polearms less deadly but they are still insta hitting opponents.

[Vodner]

The problem is not the weakness of the spears, but the OPness of the high tier polearms.

The absolute last thing I think when I take a longsword/SoW against a warspear user (of the very few who stubbornly keep using them) is 'this is a balanced fight'. What I actually think is 'I'm going to castor/chamber/range game every single time I see a sideswing, because I lose almost no health if I mess up or he holds'.

[Pentecost]

Saul: Is it only that they're weak for 1v1 now or that they're weak in general? I own a War Spear myself, and while, as you said, I find myself at a disadvantage whenever I try fighting someone that has a greatsword with it, I figured that was more due to the fact that I am still not very good with it at the moment. On the other hand, I've seen Malaclypse absolutely manhandle people with a ragged outfit and Red Tassel Spear before.  I'm sure you've seen it too. Does he count as one of the diehard fans you were talking about?

[Jarlek]

Saul: Is it only that they're weak for 1v1 now or that they're weak in general? I own a War Spear myself, and while, as you said, I find myself at a disadvantage whenever I try fighting someone that has a greatsword with it, I figured that was more due to the fact that I am still not very good with it at the moment. On the other hand, I've seen Malaclypse absolutely manhandle people with a ragged outfit and Red Tassel Spear before.  I'm sure you've seen it too. Does he count as one of the diehard fans you were talking about?

A good player will beat a worse player even if he has a worse weapon.

[Vodner]

Saul: Is it only that they're weak for 1v1 now or that they're weak in general? I own a War Spear myself, and while, as you said, I find myself at a disadvantage whenever I try fighting someone that has a greatsword with it, I figured that was more due to the fact that I am still not very good with it at the moment. On the other hand, I've seen Malaclypse absolutely manhandle people with a ragged outfit and Red Tassel Spear before.  I'm sure you've seen it too. Does he count as one of the diehard fans you were talking about?

That's less a matter of the red tassel being good, and more just a matter of Mala being good. He presumably uses it because he plays hoplite most of the time; if not for that, he would be far better served by a poleaxe, glaive, GLA, or bec. Even an iron staff would likely be a better choice.

[spiritus]

That would imply that the weaker spears are in a good spot, which I don't really think anyone would agree with. Use a war spear against a guy in plate armor, regardless of his weapon, you're at a significant disadvantage.

i used a warspear in the chaos battle against the plated people and got a 2kd!!!!!! just buff my babys peirce so i can 2 hit even higher armoured people

[spiritus]

That's less a matter of the red tassel being good, and more just a matter of Mala being good. He presumably uses it because he plays hoplite most of the time; if not for that, he would be far better served by a poleaxe, glaive, GLA, or bec. Even an iron staff would likely be a better choice.

the warspear is a great weapon with an agi build you can spam and do tons of damage with the stabs with speed bonuses and kite people and skey etc people complain about me alot and its not becuase im an amazing player its becuase how good an agi warspear build is

[Dezilagel]

[MURDERTRON]

We'll the 2h stab animation is incredibly good (aka op). The pole stab animation is bad.  So if the spears forte is stabbing, but they have a bad animation, then you're better off with something that hits much easier but does less damage on stabs.  That said, nearly every 2h does more damage on swings too.  In fact, other than BigSandwich, you don't see many using the WarSpear.  And Mala is the only red tassel user.  Most pole arm users would rather use a 2d pole arm for a quicker stab, even if it's more expensive like the Ashwood.  However, I find the arguments in this thread a little weird.  I don't think top tier(cost) pole arms to be that great.  A pole axe only has 42cut or 29blunt on swings which is not impressive at all at +3.  Sure, the stab is good, but you're still dealing with a bad animation that isn't fast.  The other two pole axes suffer similar problems with different trade offs.  If anything, I find the Long Bardiche and the Long Hafted Spiked Mace to be much better despite their weak stabs.