My last post on the matter. (Please do something about Balance.) nvm patch out!

[Erzengel]

As a dedicated shielder, game is totally unbalanced from my point of view. Ranged aren't op, they are just too many, lancers are op and are too many.

I would have give some arguments some months ago, but it's useless to bother now, everything has been already said and nothing happened.

Don't forget the 2H and Polearms that can simply spam you to death. A heavy shield slows you down too much and a light shield breaks after a few hits. If you put your shield on the back your weapon gets stunned unless you use a Military Hammer or something similar. Same with body armor. With light armor you often get onehit or die due to teamhits and with medium/heavy armor you move like a turtle. It is a joke that 2H and Poles are faster, deal more damage and also have a longer reach compared to 1H. They even move much faster...

Shielder is not a bad class, but 2H and Pole are clearly superior.

[BlueKnight]

Once on EU4 among like 30 players there were like 8 cav in enemy team and like 1 or 2 in my team. After we lost first round I said to myself "fuck this, I will use tactics" and I went back from my spawn to the invisible wall with my friend. When whole my team died doing in fact nothing, they had to watch us fighting at the invisible map border and they understood that it was the way to win. Next round whole team went to that border and we won. For the rest of the map, my team was the winning one.

To sum up, use tactics, stop whining, less talking, more raiding.

Battle is not as bad as you say. Also Thomek is a ninja so with a short weapon he might have problems with cav and as a ninja with low amount of armour he might receive big damage from archers. I guess it might be the reason why he is upset with them.

I humbly agree that penetrating heavy armours (aka. using best bows) as an archer should require 7 PD or sth but I believe devs are working on something with WM which will bring other important changes and sooner or later we will have some kind of important patch which will balance things out.

Trust donkey and his crew. Among all the games I have ever played, crpg has one of the best if not the best balance.

[Miwiw]

I'm pretty much satisfied with crpg's balance. Archers and cav are only overpowered if they pop up in hundreds (or when the map is full of fog).

Infantry should always stay with other infantry. If you go ninja, you can only die...

There should be done smth about kiting tho, I personally do not care about it much myself, but most seem not to like Archers without a melee weapon or the will to fight in melee... 

[Overdriven]

In my opinion the player base has evovled but the game hasnt. The  general players skill has increased alot, making infantry much harder and fights much longer. I think the game should match this, and change and evolve with the player base.  The way it is now, infantry feels very stale, which is why i believe theres been a big increase in ranged and cav. Why have these long blocking fights and then get shot or couched when you can do the shooting and do the couching. Infantry isnt as rewarding as it was and thats because the game feels is slower and people are better.

 A solution would be not to nerf cav or ranged, but to make infantry more appealing again, so players want to go infantry. This mainly could be done by just increasing the game speed, making things faster so were not stuck with 2 minute fights every time you meet somebody on the battlefield.

Best post. No need to jump on the nerf wagon (2 years of nerfs has gotten pretty tiring).

It was a thread from Thomek. It was never going to be anything other than 'nerf cav/ranged'.

I'd personally rebalance archers to make agi archers less useful and str archers more normal and also give them basic melee capabilities (something more than that damn hammer). That much I do agree on with Thomek. Some hoplite buffs might be nice as well to help promote the class and combat cav. Removing couch lance for anything other than great lance makes sense to me, as long as the great lance also got a bit more of a buff (length/couch speed). Otherwise I wouldn't touch cav balance, they've been messed with enough and I don't think that's where the problem lies.

Finally add a requirement for xbows. It's way to easy for every melee char to lug an xbow around with minimal requirement. I've fired arbalests with my HA and killed stuff easily with 0 wpf. Makes 0 sense.

Edit:

And just because...a conquest game mode would be nice 

[BlueKnight]

Finally add a requirement for xbows. It's way to easy for every melee char to lug an xbow around with minimal requirement. I've fired arbalests with my HA and killed stuff easily with 0 wpf. Makes 0 sense.

I guess that what was supposed to stop players from taking arbalests even with 0 wpf was the upkeep because as far as I know the chance of repair is also based on wpf somehow. It means that people will rather avoid taking arbalests until they have a very good reason for that. Also there is str requirement and to shoot from a crossbow irl, people never had to be skilled, they had to be strong enough.

Introducing skillpoints' requirement for xbow would be a bit strange.

[Royans]

Go play siege.

[Overdriven]

I guess that what was supposed to stop players from taking arbalests even with 0 wpf was the upkeep because as far as I know the chance of repair is also based on wpf somehow. It means that people will rather avoid taking arbalests until they have a very good reason for that. Also there is str requirement and to shoot from a crossbow irl, people never had to be skilled, they had to be strong enough.

Introducing skillpoints' requirement for xbow would be a bit strange.

And crpg has always been based on real life...

Problem is upkeep is neglible due to selling heirlooms ect on the marketplace. Many of the regular players around now will have a significant amount of gold and so it simply won't matter. I could quite happily lug an arbalest round with 0 wpf and it would take a long long long time for me to notice the upkeep dropping my gold at all. Str requirement is 15. Majority of people have 15 str or more. Even if you don't it's only a small step down to the heavy xbow at 12 str. I was talking more of a requirement like PD. Simply put though, the amount of people with xbows in battle is a lot. I didn't notice it so much before, but I made an xbow alt and now I realise just how many there are when I'm running along with them.

[Son Of Odin]

I just came to tell that loose =/= lose. Thomek U been drunk'n shit again?

Can everyone please add their main char's class to their posts?
Just for the lulz

As a kiting archer: OMG NERF SHIELDS!

As a shieldless cavalry hybrid: OMG NERF RANGED. THROWING TOO! LANCE ARE BEST AND HORSES. BITCHES LOVE HORSES... ...AND POLE . DERPA DURPA KATANA. IT R NO REALUZM! KATANA HEVYER IRL. KATANA ARE THIKEST AND DON'T PENETRATE ON ARMURS. SHIELDS ARE FINE MOEW. DON'T SAY THEY ARE OP I CAN BROKEN THEM EZI WITH MY HUGE POLES (AXE OR COUCH). SHIELDS ARE PERFECTLY BALANCED BUT 1H WITHOUT SHIELD IS OP DUEL CLASS THEY OUTREACH NEARLY EVERYTHING AND CAN FACEHUG SPAMITY SPAM. REMOVE SCIMITAR IT'S SO LAME WEAPON IT'S LIKE A KATUNA FUR 1H. NOT COOL. IT HITS FASTER THAN THE SHIT HIT'S THE FAN WHEN SOMEONE SCREENSHOTS THOMEK'S ADMIN ABUS. I LIKE ABUS. AUTOBUS IS COOL. HE PLAYS LIKE A BUSS!. BUT YEAH NERF KATENA, BUFF DANISH AND GERMAN G SWORDS. THEY ARE TRUE MEN'S WEPONS! LOLSTAB SHOULD ONEHIT EVRHUTING. IT'S SO POWERFUL IRL.

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Third thing... What cmp said. Thomek pls

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This post desperately needed a Supernatural gif.

[Royans]

I think Son Of Odin is a leviathan!

PS : DID U JUST SPOIL ME WITH UR GIF?!!!!!!

[Muunilinst]

i agree in the last weeks anddays there rounds i dont get hit one time by a melee weapon.
its like pew pew there pew pew there and thent he cav bumps when u chase an archer and then get shot on the ground.
srsly thomek made the problem may a bit bigger as it is but its still a big problem.

[v/onMega]

Slowmo gamespeed AS Chase puts it.

Been saying this for more then a year....

[Thomek]

To begin with, Thomek is one hell of a ranged/cavalry hater.
If you haven't figured out why already it's because he lacks the skill to play anything else but 2H.
The reason he can't handle fighting ranged and cavalry is because he has no awareness and no sense of teamplay.

With that said, Thomek is biased as hell.

Lol ok Riddaren, I'm not the one riding a Courser for 20 gens.. Tell me you are not biased.
(I play inf because it's fun for me, tried cav, and found it disgusting, archers are way worse off, but too many of them have too many looms and too high levels.. So they do more damage than melee)

Anyway, Thomek is right. Something needs to be done soon or this mod will die.
But nerfing is absolutely not the way to go. Too many players have already left this mod because of nerfs.

I'm not so sure about that. Yes, of course there is heat assosciated with nerfs, but I think more people actually would quit now, because of lame gameplay than because of nerfs.

Anyway, the point was not to turn this into a balance discussion. (Everything have been said there many times)

It's all a cry for getting something done. (Soon!)

[Leshma]

Faster and deadlier infantry. Keep other classes as they are.

[Torost]

disclaimer: Im a silly STRarcher. 15 Agi 5 Ath , no good for kiting.

Slaugthering peasants and archers in the past might have been too easy?
Do people get hooked on high KD ratios? Thinking somthing is wrong when they cant maintain the 5:1 KD?
Im a level 31 rusbowarcher fully loomed and have a 1:1 KD, not complaining about infantry beeing to hard to hit with all their shields,spins,heavy armor and ironflesh.

A complete rework of bows ,arrows,crossbows and bolts would be a great idea to address the QQ about kiting.
Is kiting OP? or just annoying?

Adjust the PD req for all the bows. Make them all between 5-10 PD(Low Str/PD forces lowend bows.)
Currently most of the bows are useless. Only Hornbow and Rusbow that is any good.

Make bows with traits(cheap/expensive,fast/slow,accurate/inaccurate,lowdmg/highdmg), instead of the marginal increase in stats.
Tie the pierce to the bow, not the arrows.
Bring back the Warbow 10PD!
The 0slot wepons are useless for those that use them today, mainly 2slot archers. They have shitty stats ,combined with 0 wpf and ps. Only usable for killing peasants and blocking while fleeing.

Crossbows should be banned and removed IMO, but somehow this unfun playstyle that triumph and replace archery in every way have the love of the playerbase and balancers.

Make all crossbows 2 slot. And price the bolts in the same way as arrows.
Normalize looms between archery and crossbows. Currently crossbows get so much more bonus out of looming bolts and crossbow than archery.

Balance for battle regular crpg. Its impossible to make sane balancing with Strategus and siege in mind. They are different ways of playing.

Only thing that frustrates me hard with cav, is that the most manuverable ones can run in small circles and serial bump me faster than I can draw my bow.
Leading to certain death if they catch me in the open.

[Oberyn]

I just want to chime in and say I may be at least partly responsible for this particular thread because I thoroughly enjoy hunting Thomek down whenever I see him on battle servers, and this was posted after he GTX the servers late at night yesterday.
In any case, Thomek you're a throwing hybrid dude. Do you know how easily it is to shoot down the arabian with a well placed throwing spear? Maybe if you didn't force yourself to use the ridiculous throwing stars and crappy katana (i.e GIMP build, as I've told you before) you would be able to stand up better against cav and ranged. If you insist on using some of the crappiest weapons available to you because of RP reasons don't come whining afterwards that boohoo inf is underpowered. How would you even know? Do you have any inf build that isn't deliberately weak?