Hafted Blade - Overpowered?

[BlameMeForTheNoise]

Okay i just got confirmation from the irc-channel:

You can stun as many times as you want. But you have to hold your attack for every time. Holding attack takes time.
Secondly the stun only affects attacks. You can block freely.

Basically that means you are able to block two times. You will just not be able to attack for stunned period of time. Obviously.
So it clearly is really an issue on your side... (no offence meant )

[Blueberry Muffin]

Yeah polearms can stun for a second hit, and pretty much all polearms can get in that second hit. Long Hafted blade is the prime target for criticism because everyone uses it. If you want to nerf an OP weapon. You should try looking at the glaive. Little less speed but lots more damage and length. Or maybe the long spiked mace. That weapon is ridiculously OP. Even with 0ps on my archer alt it 2-3 hits people, is incredibly spamable and has decent reach. Also in regards to spam. If you get spammed, its your fault because spam is easily countered. There is not such thing as spam, only bad footwork.

[CaptainQuantum]

Nobody has addressed the 2nd issue still, the fact that the spam speed is faster than recovery from knockback, if this is a problem with other polearms too then forgive me since I have only noticed this on the hafted blade. And of course the is such a thing as spam, just because it's combattable doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that logic is equivalent to saying that an infantryman doesn't exist because they can be defeated, silly logic is in use.

Stop going on about the stun block, I know how it works, it's all in the game manual. By the way there is a slight misunderstanding of what was explained over IRC. You can have multiple stun blocks in the same fight but not one after the other. The stun block has a cooldown, so you can't get it two blocks in a row. I have already stated I know how it works so there is no need to explain. I have not referred to stun block individually being overpowered, I have talked of it being overpowered on a weapon that fast at swinging, realistically theres a problem with that too, the heavier a weapon the more stun you will get, the heavier the weapon the slower it will get. So the weapon should really be able to be very fast without stun on block or relatively slow and have stun on block.

[BlameMeForTheNoise]

I never noticed something like the spamspeed being faster than the discovering speed. I will try it out after work. If it is so, i think this should be changed after all.

[Keshian]

Its more noticeable on the war spear and quarter staff and awlpike users who intentionally max out their agility with minimal strength to be able to polearm stun their opponents and get free hits until they die because they keep getting polearm stunned again by another hit before they can recover enough from last hit to even be allowed to block.  (Seems pretty common in North America, maybe less so in Europe that you guys don't notice it??)  Its a problem in general with polearm stun in a cRPG engine where agility stacking allows unlimited hits and destroys worries about manual blocking opponents. 

My personal opinion is that it should be limited to stabs only as that actually makes sense.  How does side swinging a great long axe rather than a 2handed war axe somehow differ to justify a polearm stun or any of the poleaxes for that matter??  One of the dirtiest things to see now is someone witha  masterwork bec de corbin 1 hitting most people and if you are lucky enough to survive the first hit you still get polearm stunned even on a side swing making it significantly more likely you will get hit again. 

Not sure if this is right place to put it, but does anyone know for sure if the poleaxes will become unbalanced with next patch??  Because elegant poleaxe has to be one of the most feint-spammy weapon in the game and its a fricken huge pole with an axe at the end being twirled like a toothpick.

[CaptainQuantum]

It's good to see I am not the only one noticing this, since from this post nobody has supported my experience. If it is a problem with most polearms then I guess it's a general problem and not just the hafted blade, so hoepfully there will be a tweaking already in production for the next patch.

[Zisa]

Its more noticeable on the war spear and quarter staff and awlpike users who intentionally max out their agility with minimal strength to be able to polearm stun their opponents and get free hits until they die because they keep getting polearm stunned again by another hit before they can recover enough from last hit to even be allowed to block.  (Seems pretty common in North America, maybe less so in Europe that you guys don't notice it??)  Its a problem in general with polearm stun in a cRPG engine where agility stacking allows unlimited hits and destroys worries about manual blocking opponents. 

My personal opinion is that it should be limited to stabs only as that actually makes sense.  How does side swinging a great long axe rather than a 2handed war axe somehow differ to justify a polearm stun or any of the poleaxes for that matter??  One of the dirtiest things to see now is someone witha  masterwork bec de corbin 1 hitting most people and if you are lucky enough to survive the first hit you still get polearm stunned even on a side swing making it significantly more likely you will get hit again. 

Not sure if this is right place to put it, but does anyone know for sure if the poleaxes will become unbalanced with next patch??  Because elegant poleaxe has to be one of the most feint-spammy weapon in the game and its a fricken huge pole with an axe at the end being twirled like a toothpick.

You rage about lawlpikes, then propose polearm stun be for thrust attacks? Err...
The 'Great Axe' on a stick is rumoured to become unbalanced, and has a weakish thrust. I hear you though, why should the polearm stun and not the great axe?

Have you used an elegant pole axe Kesh? It is about the least spammy polearm there is. It is shorter then it looks, being slightly longer in effect then a bec, and slower. It is not a huge pole (that's what she said) and there are not a lot of weapons you can safely out range with it.

[Fluffy_Muffin]

I never noticed something like the spamspeed being faster than the discovering speed. I will try it out after work. If it is so, i think this should be changed after all.

Then you have obviously never been stunlocked by Pullys overhead spear   

As for the LHB, when i get hit in my heavy armor set (transitional, tounament helmet, gauntlets) id say i get semi-stunlocked about 50% of the time wich makes blocking very very hard. I think the other 50% who dont are either low lvl or to slow. Sometimes i get permastuned but that is rare.

So yea i think the stun/stagger duration should be tweaked a bit.

[Mustang_Sweets]

Your problem is that you don't have enough athletics/footwork skill, if a person is feinting alot they usually are unsure about their ability to block so hit them as they are feinting, and if they block you block them. Usually a feinter who is also a spammer when they block once they go for an attack without a feint. Block this attack and return fire. You shall win and if you don't wanna gable the stun, block twice. I myself don't bother feinting if you block me you block me, that means i have to block you and then the attack process returns. Always think of your next step and their next step, never the now. The now is only used as your way to the next step. With this you shall beat them.

P.S. All this comes from an English Bill user, so don't complain about spamming. I ONLY HAVE TWO POINTS OF ATTACK!

[Mustang_Sweets]

Then you have obviously never been stunlocked by Pullys overhead spear   

As for the LHB, when i get hit in my heavy armor set (transitional, tounament helmet, gauntlets) id say i get semi-stunlocked about 50% of the time wich makes blocking very very hard. I think the other 50% who dont are either low lvl or to slow. Sometimes i get permastuned but that is rare.

So yea i think the stun/stagger duration should be tweaked a bit.

I agree polearm stun is rampant, I say every polearm attack should have 2h or blunt weapon stun, except the thrust. It makes sense on this in the fact that at close range and min damage(or just beyond whiff distance) represents the polearm as being used to push the foe back out of range and knocking they off balance. Other then that, I say polearm stun is rampant, too long(in duration), and needs changing.

P.S. I say stun should go with weapon weight. If you disagree please say so.

[Mustang_Sweets]

You rage about lawlpikes, then propose polearm stun be for thrust attacks? Err...
The 'Great Axe' on a stick is rumoured to become unbalanced, and has a weakish thrust. I hear you though, why should the polearm stun and not the great axe?

Have you used an elegant pole axe Kesh? It is about the least spammy polearm there is. It is shorter then it looks, being slightly longer in effect then a bec, and slower. It is not a huge pole (that's what she said) and there are not a lot of weapons you can safely out range with it.

I disagree, I have killed a select few of elegant users, then use their axe and found it to be much more effective then the bec at spamming it has just enough range to be deceptive and also it does work at a well set range. Agreeable it is a bit more difficult to use then the auto pilot bec but it is a better weapon then the "autopilot" bec. In this i say. If you are a bec, YOU ARE A NOOB, WHO SHALL STAY A NOOB FOR AS LONG AS YOU USE SAID WEAPON!

[Zisa]

I disagree, I have killed a select few of elegant users, then use their axe and found it to be much more effective then the bec at spamming it has just enough range to be deceptive and also it does work at a well set range. Agreeable it is a bit more difficult to use then the auto pilot bec but it is a better weapon then the "autopilot" bec. In this i say. If you are a bec, YOU ARE A NOOB, WHO SHALL STAY A NOOB FOR AS LONG AS YOU USE SAID WEAPON!

What is noobish about using a polearm that is outranged by everything? Curious actually, as the thing with the 2 attack direction weapons seems to be abuse the stab mechanics.

[Siiem]

Heirloomd hafted weapons can stun you and with the extra speed can attack you again while you are in stun animation, it's quite silly. Make one mistake or fail block and it's all over.

[Mustang_Sweets]

What is noobish about using a polearm that is outranged by everything? Curious actually, as the thing with the 2 attack direction weapons seems to be abuse the stab mechanics.

That's because it only has two attacks, You have to do a complete up motion in order to do an overhead, and the bec is a face hug weapon with ungodly pierce, pretty much it can do min damage and still hurt like you got head shoted by an xbow. It also holds alot of phantom range, it by far holds one of the top ten phantom range spots. The weapons with two attacks are a bit crippled agreeably not completely but you just have to learn the motions for blocking them if you have good enough athletics you can stay within their whiff range, and really screw them over. And if they try to spin stab you, then don't blame the mechanic and actually learn to block down. Or even better learn to chamber it.

[Kalam]

P.S. I say stun should go with weapon weight. If you disagree please say so.

What you're describing with weight is commonly referred to as 'weapon stun' and is already in place. It happens with every weapon, not just polearms, and is most noticeable when using a one-hander with no shield.

Polearm stun is best described as a stagger, and it is indeed annoying. The obvious solution is to remove it and increase the speed of certain polearms, but I don't think that'll happen until the devs start messing with the hard code or something.

That said, while there are many weapons in this game that cause concern, ultimately, we're standing on a pretty balanced era here, and the hafted blade is fine in my opinion.

The long hafted blade and similar polearms could use some work, sure, but they're not weapons you should have any trouble with if you're a balanced or agility build.

Essentially, I believe the most annoying issues with them come from playing a character that is gimp'd toward them- such as running around with a one-hander and no shield or playing a heavy strength character, or, if you're feeling exceptionally masochistic, both.

However, these builds are excellent in almost all other situations, and so I think it's a trade-off.