Author Topic: [UNBAN] Bjord  (Read 1932 times)

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Offline Bjord

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[UNBAN] Bjord
« on: October 08, 2012, 12:51:43 pm »
I have no idea why I'm banned, I was playing without quarrels last Friday and Tennenoth was as usual harassing me with mutes and such, but I ignored it and just kept playing. I was warned to not insult people (the insults: told Tzar to shut up, which was not meant to be serious and called GK Gay Khans, which also was a joke and something they can confirm, as I'm friendly with them).

Now (Monday), I join only to find I am banned from EU.
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Offline Death_Dealer

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 12:54:22 pm »
im not offended by beeing called gay khan. im a gaymer at all :P

Offline Tennenoth

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 01:33:51 pm »
After my apparent harassment through muting you, you decided it would be a good idea to spam the admin chat with rubbish, among which were insults. During this time I was talking on IRC to several admins and above, asking how to proceed, it was deemed appropriate to essay ban you.

The most disconcerting thing about this, and I talked to you about it before your "psychology" talks, is that you were already on probation for insulting another player extensively, you even asked me to try and talk to him so that you were able to continue playing. I did you a favour in that regard, I tried to quell the issue on the understanding that you'd stop your abuse. You did not stop and as such broke your probation which in itself warrants the ban.

I'm not sure whether you thought you manipulated me into seeking that agreement or that you were then safe to continue your antics but I'm sorry to say that you've got to stop. Sure you'll have lots of people rushing to your defence saying "oh its just trolling" but others don't see it that way, they take offence and its muddied the water between friendly banter and being an outright arse towards people. You've got a track record for being abusive towards others there is no getting away from it.

Probation ban thread; 12/08/2012. http://forum.meleegaming.com/closed-requests/%28ban%29-saracen_el_bhjourd-37611/msg578554/#msg578554

I have an essay title in mind, but I need to think of the proper wording, I will get back to you shortly after work.
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Offline Bjord

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 05:47:26 pm »
5 days now, waiting for the "wording".
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Offline Tennenoth

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 12:08:10 am »
My university comes first. I believe I did mention that I would be online late during our talk yesterday.

1,000 essay on "how do does harassment ruin game time for other players"

Oh I should mention that you can submit it in the global ban section (http://forum.meleegaming.com/global/) if you're unable to post it in the unban essay area. You're welcome to add a poll as well and I'll move it over once you're finished.

Edit: I guess that's what I get for copy-pasting.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 07:53:14 pm by Tennenoth »
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Offline Bjord

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 01:55:03 am »
I don't care what comes first, I believe a proper admin would have thought of the topic and wording at the time of the ban and not 5 days later. It seriously took you 5 days to come up with this:
"how do does harassment ruin game time for other players"
:lol:

Then again, I think we've established the quality of your adminship not only once but several times. However, no matter what I say it will always be seen as bias, so congratulations I suppose, for being an admin. Sure makes it easy to single out people you don't like and effectively remove them from the community.

Other admins: Is there any possibility later on to get this guy off my back BTW? I'd like to play the game with my friends, with the friendly banter and all, without someone who is a bit too keen on "admining" telling me what I am allowed to say and not.

I will write the essay, I'd just like to know if there's some way to accommodate a smoother solution. Obviously, Tennenoth takes his job very, very seriously. I'd rather he focused his time on other potential violators like leechers, griefers and such.

Anyway, will have written it tomorrow or the day after.
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Offline Molly

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 05:07:29 pm »
I hope I don't get too much warning for posting here but I can't resist:

What came to my mind was: Lots of people complain about one person, so obviously the lots of people are all idiots, right? Makes totally sense to me!  :mrgreen:
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 05:23:32 pm »
What came to my mind was: Lots of people complain about one person, so obviously the lots of people are all idiots, right? Makes totally sense to me!  :mrgreen:
So, what you're saying is that Bjord isn't an idiot but everyone complaining about him is?
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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 05:41:44 pm »
oh wow... that answer...  :shock:
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Offline Tennenoth

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 02:32:06 am »
With all due respect Bjord, you say that I'm "on your back", I haven't been very active in game for quite some time, I merely jump in to check the ban threads to help the other admins out and keep my nose in cRPG.

On top of that, you seemed quite happy with the way I admined when I did you a favour, but as soon as it goes against you, suddenly "I think we've established the quality of your adminship not only once but several times."

From not talking to you for quite some time, the first conversation we had was the Kinngrimm probation;

(click to show/hide)

Firstly having read it back, I would just like to quickly state that I have never banned you before. ("I asked Tennenoth to relay this message to you since I am muted, and since he was the one who issued the ban last time") but that part of the message isn't relevant, it's just something I noticed. (http://forum.meleegaming.com/closed-requests/%28ban%29-saracen_el_bhjourd/)

Now, that seems like a perfectly reasonable conversation we had and I helped you out, even told you that it doesn't matter if you mean the apology since I would work something out. Not too long later I receive a message from Kinngrimm on 24/09/2012 (12/08/2012 probation set) with a link to a thread that you insulted him further in: http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/tribal-warrior-vs-padded-leather-finetuning/
that should have been a ban but I let it slide.

Next you made one ban request which I denied, we've had that discussion about "assumptions" and why I went against you, it wasn't anything personal, it just wasn't substantial enough and I thought you understood that. Besides that, an hour isn't a long time.
Later I received a message from you telling me "Don't jump to conclusions if you didn't even bother your lazy ass to check the logs", the logs being unavailable, which they still are. Sadly for some reason the system stopped recording my sent messages about six months ago, but I remember typing "get a grip" at the end of my reply, I'm sure you still have it though.

From then on, I started playing a little more regularly and that brings us to the issue we're currently faced with, and although you have done what I have asked, I still find it irritating that you continually bad mouth me when I have not extended you the same courtesy.

So forgive me if I was a little harsh with the mute but you'd broken my trust and I wasn't about to take a chance. As I have said, and you repeated in your essay, the ban itself wasn't for the chat up to the mute, it was for the chat afterwards and given what I have written here, you didn't appear to have stopped. It was just the final straw so to speak.

A little timeline to sum everything up in chronological order;

14-06-2012, 15:30:14 - First harassment thread; http://forum.meleegaming.com/closed-requests/%28ban%29-saracen_el_bhjourd/
11-08-2012, 22:04:03 - Second harassment thread; http://forum.meleegaming.com/closed-requests/%28ban%29-saracen_el_bhjourd-37611/
11-08-2012, 22:43:07 - Our conversation over IRC.
18-09-2012, 10:49:05 - I denied your ban request and received your message.
24-09-2012, 10:50:07 - Attack on Kinngrimm on the forums; http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/tribal-warrior-vs-padded-leather-finetuning/
05-10-2012, ~16:11:00 - I banned you.
05-10-2012, 22:06:11 - I receive a list of alleged insults. The dates stating times two hours before I banned you. (unverifiable due to lack of logs)
08-10-2012, 10:51:43 - Unban request.

EDIT: I should say that this isn't about getting you perma-banned, I don't care whether or not you stay in cRPG just so long as you change your attitude but many people have said that you won't.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 02:43:43 am by Tennenoth »
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Offline Bjord

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2012, 03:03:18 am »
Not going to reply to all of that, but I have a question: Why didn't you just ban me for two weeks, like the agreement said? Even though I had not insulted anyone prior to the ban (to my knowledge), the mute triggered some nasty exchanges from my side. That warranted a ban, but I don't know about an essay ban and I still don't get why you gave me an unrelated essay title. So you kind of broke your end of the deal by going far out of your way to talk to higher ups about an essay ban. I would have been fine with the 2 week ban even though it was your mute that provoked the exchange.

Also, FYI, if you're going to start to ban people in-game for things they say on the forums you can prepare to get rid of A LOT of people. So I repeat, this whole singling out thing you're doing at the moment is going great. I hope you're proud.

Reply to my essay if you will, all of this is irrelevant now.
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Offline Tennenoth

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2012, 03:23:03 am »
Not going to reply to all of that, but I have a question: Why didn't you just ban me for two weeks, like the agreement said? Even though I had not insulted anyone prior to the ban (to my knowledge), the mute triggered some nasty exchanges from my side. That warranted a ban, but I don't know about an essay ban and I still don't get why you gave me an unrelated essay title. So you kind of broke your end of the deal by going far out of your way to talk to higher ups about an essay ban. I would have been fine with the 2 week ban even though it was your mute that provoked the exchange.

Also, FYI, if you're going to start to ban people in-game for things they say on the forums you can prepare to get rid of A LOT of people. So I repeat, this whole singling out thing you're doing at the moment is going great. I hope you're proud.

Reply to my essay if you will, all of this is irrelevant now.

As I said to you already, the essay ban wasn't my idea and the reason I enquired about a ban was because I wanted to be sure that I was within my rights to do so. Secondly, I said "2+ weeks", both when I talked to you on IRC & in the ban thread.

In game or on the forums, given the fact that it was for your continual attacks, that ranges across any platform. The forum is still part of the game area and people still have a right to use that without being attacked. You were complained about, and warned for your actions so you can't just carry on somewhere else. You can't teamkill on a forums, but you can insult them, you can continue your harassment in a different arena.

Finally, I didn't single you out, in effect you singled yourself out by being the most prolific offender, as I mentioned in the IRC chat "the head of the snake". If you're the one who was picked out for the ban threads then clearly you were the most noticable instigator. This isn't irrelevant since its the precursor to this incident, it gives more depth to what has happened. It shows why I made the decisions I did and considering your continual attacks on my admining I thought it'd be good for you to see things as clearly as I could present them, from my point of view.
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Offline Lansamur

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2012, 03:59:17 am »
-1 for Bjord
+1 fo Tennenoth

That's how you roll proper admining. Not the whiny crap other admins seem to do these days.


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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2012, 04:11:39 am »
Admins with balls. The heroes this mod needs so much.

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Re: [UNBAN] Bjord
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2012, 02:44:45 pm »
Bjord, I trust Tenne's judgement and I'd like it if you stop discussing the bits and pieces and never repeat anything slightly near these complains. Because it's Merc concern too.
Take 5 days off, think about it then come back.
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