Author Topic: What america needs to do to win in 2012  (Read 1369 times)

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Offline Lordark

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What america needs to do to win in 2012
« on: September 22, 2012, 09:26:14 am »
+2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otnADq4Y0-A  Both parties represent the same thing. Only 1 way to end corrupted powers that have run amock. 
I think we can match Frances head count with our amount of corrupt politicians.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 09:54:50 am »
+3
Not really, Republicans want to completely end spending on social programs like healthcare, unemployment, education, retirement, and cut all benefits and pay for public workers like teachers, police, firefighters.  They are a party for the super rich that win elections on a platform of appealing to racists and religious zealots over petty social issues.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy.  They almost literally despise anyone who isn't a rich, successful, white businessman and have spent the past 40 years destroying the American economy with "trickle-down economics" that Romney still plans on doing again if he wins, which is based on letting the rich get richer, letting the poor starve, and pumping out an unemployed, undereducated middle-class while unregulated corporations seek higher profit overseas with outsourcing.

Democrats aren't nearly as left as European liberal parties, and often have to cede concessions to Republicans to get anything passed, due to the two party, gridlocked nature of congressional politics.  They also seem rather ineffectual at getting their policies enacted without a really powerful president like FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, or Bill Clinton.  Yet they still do what they can to represent the middle and lower class, and focus on getting us tuition assistance so we can go to school and get good jobs without already being rich, access to health care, taking care of the sick and elderly with welfare, just generally positive good things to help people and fix the economy.  Also the party for civil rights, which is why the South switched to Republicans:  they refused to support politicians who let black people vote, go to school, and not get lynched daily by the KKK.

Republican foreign policy is also overrun with neoconservatives, who got free reign during the Bush II years.  See an unnecessary war in Iraq that instead of being paid for was coupled with tax breaks for millionaires, wilful ignorance of Al-Qaeda and direct warnings about a major attack before 9/11 due to being focused on Saddam, outright lying to the public to ensure support (WMDs lol), failing miserably in Afghanistan, and completely destroying American respect and credibility internationally (except Israel, also run by neoconservatives).

The most progressive national party in America, which I agree with nearly 100 percent, is the Green Party.
http://www.gp.org/committees/platform/2010/index.php.  They represent ideals I wish were more mainstream in American politics, but honestly with how regressive and insane the Republican side is, true reform and progressivism isn't too likely anytime soon.

Basically the point is don't just go "heh, two sides of the same coin, why vote?  amerikkka" because if you can vote and want America to stop its embarrassing downward spiral, you will vote against Republicans in every local and federal election you can.  Not until they completely lose support and fall apart as a party will we see sane politics and cooperation in congress to fix problems in our lifetimes.
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Offline Lordark

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 10:20:14 am »
0
Every vote is thrown away to a big virtual dump in the illumanities hard drive to tract you harder.  Only 1 party can stop the problems and that the you and me party, the American party.

Been 10 years since the war started and its been the same bs talk about gays, abortion, drugs , all crap started by politicians to distract you while they rape this country and weaken it to strenghten the secret powers.       

Yeah Im a conpiracy nut but hey Obama says he bring them all home and were still out there. 2020 american soldiers are going to still be in Afganistan or another country we invade because of trumped up shit 'government' let happen.

Basically Ron Paul was our last hope but we failed to overpower the Political system now only fires can cleanse the wicked.  Defend the 2nd amendment at all costs. Defend liberty as long as you can. Dont trade freedom for safety.
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Offline Tibe

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 12:14:51 pm »
+2
Two-party system does not work imo.

Offline Molly

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 12:26:02 pm »
0
Two-party system does not work imo.
Obviously.
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Offline Paul

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 01:06:19 pm »
0
Kinda reminds me of the old Simpsons episode where both the Republican and Democrat presidential candidate get abducted by aliens and substituted by dummies who stand for the same thing. The whole thing gets busted but they are still the legitimate canditates and the people have make a choice between them. When the (human) Green party canditate objects that the people could always elect him, they just answer: "Go ahead. Throw your vote away."

That's the problem. No matter how bad A and B are, voting for C is not an option because its like wasting one's choice in America.




Offline Kafein

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 02:33:15 pm »
0
A multipartite system also has it's disadvantages.

In Belgium both linguistic zones (for some reason they also are electoral districts) have more or less 4 dominant parties. Socialists (more gov spending), liberals (more freedom and less gov spending), conservatives/religious/humanists (now trying to get the votes of religious minorities, the irony) and ecologists. The parties in the flemish part are a little bit different. One of them alone never gets more than like 35% of the votes.

So each election sees a "winner" depending on the current events, but in the end virtually any group of parties can ally and have a majority to form a government. So yes you have many parties with different agendas, but in the end they ally and tend to create monsters.


What I find rather strange in the USA is that while republicans want to cut government spending, both parties seem to be ok with massive spending in military and security agencies/police. Or are there too many neocon in charge everywhere for it to change ?

Offline Tibe

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 02:59:07 pm »
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From what I can say as an example of my country, it rarely happens that a heavly supported party allies with another heavly supported party to beat party number 3.

But again, with all those choices they are all basically monsters as much as im concerned. Again bringing an example of my country for lolz:

Party 1: Has some shady buisnesses that are by law barely legal and with what people with moralstandards whould never participate in.
Party 2: Leader is basically insane, party is in huge dept , does some shady stuff with russians in Russia from time to time.
Party 3: Leader is in prison for bribery, party basically disassebled.
Party 4: Tries hard to stand out, barely discusses about anything important at all, merged with some russians only party to gain more votes, not working out.

So yea, as far as im concerned, no matter what votingsystem, you always gonna vote against someone, rather than for someone.

 I hate Romney. Im not a fan of  Obama either, but Romney is a radical, who is gonna keep kicking poor people in the ass and give the rich special treatment.

Offline Kafein

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 04:05:38 pm »
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From what I can say as an example of my country, it rarely happens that a heavly supported party allies with another heavly supported party to beat party number 3.

For me a democratic problem appears when two (or more) losing parties make an alliance to form a government against the winner of the elections (aka what people voted for).

Let's say party A has 30% of the votes, and emerges as a winner because it is much better than what they had last elections. Party B has 25%, party C has 18% and party D has 10%. They can form a government together, basically ignoring the elector's choice.

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 04:23:12 pm »
0
What I find rather strange in the USA is that while republicans want to cut government spending, both parties seem to be ok with massive spending in military and security agencies/police. Or are there too many neocon in charge everywhere for it to change ?

Obama is actually reducing defense spending by a trillion dollars over the next 10 years, and instead of spending on foolish wars and whimsical weapon development will focus more of the budget towards healthcare benefits, job training, higher wages, etc for people actually serving in the military.  Along with unrestricted drone warfare/spec ops of course.  The Pentagon and Obama came up with this together, as the top generals of the country determined their budgetary needs.

Romney instead has declared that the Pentagon is wrong about our military, and has promised to raise spending by a trillion more, while also lowering taxes on millionaires and billionaires (and raising them on poors).  You can guarantee this trillion will go straight to lobbyists, Israel, bloated and wasteful research projects, and probably an eventual invasion of Iran to appease Neocon Zionism.  The money to pay for this will be deducted out of social security, food stamps, student aid, and literally taking away school lunches and doctor's visits for poor children.  Example http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/05/08/480017/mccarthy-trimming-fat-poor/

Basically, the Democrats are the ones who try to balance the budget, tend to avoid full invasion wars, keep a reasonable level of taxes on the super wealthy, reduce the national deficit, and keep unemployment down.  Our military is still at a ridiculous level since the Cold War (Reagan :() and then "WAR ON TERROR IM GEORGE DUBYA FUCK U LOL" but Obama and our own military is helping take defense spending from 4.5% of our GPD to 3.

Republicans instead live in the "Real America" where their dicks only get hard from sending thousands of American soldiers to die killing brown people overseas while making black in spanishs and poors starve to death while slashing tax rates for themselves.

Also Ron Paul is really fucking embarrassing and no one should respect him.  He was the head of a neo-chocolate chip cookie extreme racist newsletter for 20-30 years and is even more extreme in wanting poors and minorities to die of disease and starvation through legislation, while allowing corporations to trample the rights of basic human dignity than most Republicans, all the while banning abortion, gay marriage, and eliminating the separation of church and state.  Much like all Libertarians. 

Its really quite invalid to portray America's two major political parties as the same thing, even if Democrats are still too cozy with the finance and healthcare industries to enact the reform needed.  Republicans are pretty much cartoon villain levels of evil at this point, with a platform designed to benefit former KKK members, millionares, and no one else.  Its quite baffling that they've gotten so extreme.  Almost comically they veto every single bipartisan effort to create jobs, they even refused to pass extended healthcare coverage to a couple thousand 9/11 first responders who were dying of cancer from the rescue effort, just because Obama is a socialist friend who they want to see fail.

Changing demographics (latinos not voting Republican because they are the anti-immigration pro-racism party) and a slow realization that the party is off the rails is starting to take root though, and many of us are praying the Republican party will fracture so the right wing lunatics get their own party (a tea party perhaps) that can be pushed out of the mainstream and stop poisoning the country.  Or at least they return to center some more. 

In case you don't get what I mean about literal unhinged insanity, here is Republican candidate for the Senate, Todd Akin, explaining his nuanced position on abortion and rape last month.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKa5CY-KOHc

I imagine a lot of countries have similar political parties, but these guys are so powerful in America they do nothing but stop ANYTHING from happening in our legislature except lowing taxes on rich people, raising them on people in poverty, privatizing or eliminating every public service that you can think of, and have now even gone back to jim crow era voting restrictions against blacks and poors to stay in power as popular sentiment goes against them.
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Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2012, 09:20:57 pm »
0
Let's say party A has 30% of the votes, and emerges as a winner because it is much better than what they had last elections. Party B has 25%, party C has 18% and party D has 10%. They can form a government together, basically ignoring the elector's choice.
Which is the majority here exactly? The 43% or the 30%? Just some food for thought.

Offline Kafein

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 10:20:25 pm »
0
Obama is actually reducing defense spending by a trillion dollars over the next 10 years, and instead of spending on foolish wars and whimsical weapon development will focus more of the budget towards healthcare benefits, job training, higher wages, etc for people actually serving in the military.  Along with unrestricted drone warfare/spec ops of course.  The Pentagon and Obama came up with this together, as the top generals of the country determined their budgetary needs.

Nice to hear there are still sane people in the administration :)


Which is the majority here exactly? The 43% or the 30%? Just some food for thought.

Of course the government will be de facto formed by a majority of votes, that's a start.


But the problem with this is that the electors have no control on what the party they vote for does. When 3 parties form a government, the outcome is rarely what any of the voters wanted.

Take the republican party. In Belgium, the reps would be the "economic freedom" party + all those on the right, the racist parties, and I would never vote for these guys. Yet they could very well do this, after the elections.

Parties can neglect all the voters that changed their vote. If a party goes from 5% to 30%, they are probably doing something right and should probably be listened to.

Offline Lordark

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 10:50:38 pm »
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im just trying to put  my opinion out there. Ron P talks about the ugly side of government no other candidate or president ever dared to. jfk was the last real president and waz killed be because 'they. wanted him to. 911 and pearl harbor were allowed because other people wanted it to. bad things happen to  people alot of times because othet people want it to. its not a chance of fate. its all planned. banks control the world not its people anymore. obama will win because they want him to win. the enlightened ones.
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Offline bilwit

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2012, 10:41:42 am »
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Anarcho-Syndicalism.
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Offline Lordark

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Re: What america needs to do to win in 2012
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 12:00:40 pm »
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NO i just want america to get back to its roots and stop dancing to the tune of a corrupt and beyond repair political parties. We need new parties, 2 , 4  , 6 ,2 i dont care I just dont trust democrats or republicans. Its like that island game where  you get voted off unless you rip off the american people enough to pay your way to the top its pointless stupid arrogance that just doesnt seem to ever end.

You bundle of stickss and hang off Obamas nuts but he is just good at making excuses and masking the reality or the situation. We owe china trillions of dollars and yet are still waging multiple wars (afghanistan, drugs, soon to be Iran and multiple others) giving tons of money in 'aid' to countries that dont need it like Isreal to keep them from what? Being our enemy??? Giving trillions of dollars to our military who seems to not be able to account for millions of it at a time and other governement aggencies. And we keep on sliding down people. The noose will tighten sooner or later around our stupid necks.

The American people need to start criticizing the white house not making sure thier own stupid fake political party is in charge. Thier both sides that are just on the same coin. Deaths Head.
Never forget the day Dragons came to Calradia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfLxHJY0lQI&feature=related
My personal theme song, We will never surrender!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg1xqAjQ5e4