The cav problem, Induced by GK

[justme]

save the eu1, it will have less players then DTV if this cav thing continues..

[Son Of Odin]

save the eu1, it will have less players then DTV if this ranged thing continues..

fix'd

[IR_Kuoin]

You forgot to mention Nuuk, as he is one of the few GK's that only use his horse when he got x5, due to fear of repair

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

I have to say this is all quite funny

firstly to address the mention of soooo many open maps... Do we have the list of rotation, because I have seen ruins very little recently and commercial city / riot in a swadian town a hell of a lot. I really think that city and village maps make up the majority of maps these days and while it does put cav at a disadvantage in the long run it helps us... and this takes me to the second point.

Too many people are just used to ramboing round a city, turning behind a wall or ledge to avoid cav, meaning they get away with being out of position. This means that when it comes to open maps, these people just charge off with little teamwork and then cavalry do what cavalry do. I still remember rounds where cavalry struggled to attack a team on open ground because they would work together. No one works together now, so if us GK come on and play as a large unit, of course we are going to dominate. We thrive off other people being distracted and disorganised. You distract yourselves from the start and you play disorganised from the start. You really wanna stop this from happening? Bring in a system that encourages people to play together and dont expect to win if you are on foot, running around in the open, 20 metres from any of your team.

[v/onMega]

Not saying cav is easy.
Not saying cav is OP.

GK is the name, a placeholder.
Could be any clan being cav only.

I respect GK for their teamplay.
They know how to play their class.

What Lactose wants to point out, I am sure, is the fact that ranged and especially cav are really important for the outcome of a match.

The numbers are way more sensitive then for example infantry.

Why?
Well its about the strengths these classes naturally have.
Once a critical mass of ranged or cav is being passed, its more or less hopeless for the opposition.

Cav awareness is bad since 2010.

1. There isnt enough pikers, hoplited etc.
2. The vanilla sounds make you paranoid, i assume few use more metal sound, which makes it a lot easier (I do).
3. Without a headset, even more paranoia is needed to see cav early enough.

So the whole point is, as far as i get it, to stop ranged and cav to surpass a critical amount in one team.

And I admit, I am all +1 towards that.

[Torben]

mate,  i think the one far most rage inducing thing in this game is if an enemy can attack you whilst you cannot touch him,  which is understandable.

thous,  the rage against ranged and cav. 

now,  in a situation where skilled high level characters are in a position in which they can attack with almost no counter,  ofc it will induce rage.
this is the case with a hand full of your HAs especially ("untouchable"),  and together with them melee cav.  thanks to this hand full,  the enemy is so distracted that lesser skilled cav also have an easier job,  no matter what class.

all in all,  the team with more ranged and/or cav can produce constant pressure on the enemy,  without being in real peril if that enemy is mostly inf,  especially not shielded inf.

pointing this out only to end the "gk this gk that" shit,  and get back to topic:

the balance is broken,  often,  not always.  and the easiest solution would be to do a class balance with almost the same priority as the clan balance.
as had been said before.

[Torben]

all in all,  the team with more ranged and/or cav can produce constant pressure on the enemy...

this is so much to the point that ill go ahead and quote it. 
it explains paranoia,  distraction,  unease and the breaking up of team play and formation at some point.

[BlindGuy]

thank you thank you , ill be signing autographs.

Sry, who are you?


Christo man, the problem is STILL not the noobs on the horses, its the OTHER team, the ones being destroyed: Same thing when BYZ would faceroll the server: 10 players working closely together to pick off lone men is always going to tip the balance, because THERE IS JUST NO WAY to stop 80% of randoms just holding W down at round start and mindlessly wondering off looking for the enemy. One by one they are ganked by clanned ganksquads. The only irritating think about the GK is that they are such nobodies its hard to spot which ones are the dangerous ones, when they get me its because I have just killed  2 or 3 horses of their worse players who have screamed for help from their better mates, who lance me as I kill off their dismounted bros.

ALSO: WHY O WHY do infantry goons STILL chase after a horseman who is baiting them out of formation? I dont get it: even with 3/39 build you CANNOT EVER CATCH A SUMPTER, stop running after horses, they arent dangerous if you just stand together, walk together, and each time they get close simply stab them, they are nerfed, and can only get you unaware or by bump-gank.

Kids will always try to play the easiest way, you cannot blame them, but its the zerglings who dont understand that you fight together or die alone that cause the problem, not the kids who take advantage of the mindless goombas.


CLASS BALANCE: Not really possible tbh: If I put 3 points in riding, am I cav? What if I dont spawn a horse? Gear selection takes place AFTER balance, so what if I have 3 shield skill and am a polearm-1hand hybrid, but spawnd without a shield and with a pike and sword? Am I shielder? 1hander? Pikeman? What if I am dedicated 2hander and I chose to grab a crossbow that round? Am I 2hander? Ranged? There are no classes that can be defined by a machine in cRPG.


EDIT: GET A SHIELD and some footwork: STR builds get raped by horsemen, I LOVE 2hander spam, but I dont do it anymore, I look at the battlefield, and I see that REAL LIFE history has lessons for us: Sure, you can be a GREAT swordsman, axeman, pikeman, but what keeps you alive in battle is a shield, a spear, and a nice sharp sidearm, but again, these are NOT tools that can make the mindless win: you MUST teamplay to keep alive, you MUST be always scanning for where the ranged is concentrating and keep watching for horses, sure its not easy, but a nice 21/18 hoplite build goes where they want, kills horses, archers, ganks beautifully with max range facestabs on busy enemies, can keep preasure on in the shieldwall, can backpedal from strengh builds and lead them out of formation for own teams ranged to take down, and can turn and run when the situation goes tits up.

The cav spam sucks, but you must evolve or die.

[Joseph Porta]

Signed, but it's still epic to get chased by 15 GK's on my poor sumpter. 

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

this is so much to the point that ill go ahead and quote it. 
it explains paranoia,  distraction,  unease and the breaking up of team play and formation at some point.

Agreed but its dealing with this that matters : teamwork But I completely agree

this is the case with a hand full of your HAs especially ("untouchable"),  and together with them melee cav.  thanks to this hand full,  the enemy is so distracted that lesser skilled cav also have an easier job,  no matter what class.

Though I agree that they are difficult to deal with. They go down pretty fast if archers shoot their horses, which is more than possible as foot ranged have greater range, power and accuracy. I am literally as we speak being headshotted off my horse by Robinhoods constantly. Do it isnt impossible. It is just once again no archer is in the mindset to do something for the team. Gk archers avoid archers that see them because they know its a too dangerous. Hopefully a shield wall should offer enough cover but with the little damage a ha does they are not more than a nuisance.

[NejStark]

Think Lorenzo said it well a few posts up.
I was playing last night while this all happened, and there were quite a few open maps being played, but conversely at times there are quite a few city maps. I play open maps on horse, skirmish and try to help the team win. Thats a lot of fun. City maps (and some villages where the hotspots are too built up, ort the maps are too hilly) - I play them on foot, get a few arrows off and get knocked the fuck out rapidly. Meh. Its a video game, and I enjoy it regardless.

Last night as mentioned in the OP, the balance did however put all us GK's on the same team. Brilliant, I want to play together. It did also put maybe 3-4 other cav players on our team that I remember, most of whom weren't using a clan banner. To resolve this and stop the range, perhaps after banner balancing is done,  a class balance of players who don't have any pals online can be done. Just a suggestion.

[Osiris]

Just be happy that most gk are mediocre cav, they are annoying on mass but most of the cav players i really feared dont play much and are spread across the clans, its not like your facing leed tommy torben tuonela etc on the same team everyday :-P

[Renegat]

A full GK stack will probably win most of the time on very open maps like ruins and the open deserts etc. but there's also urban/city maps in the rotation, don't forget. They pay for their efficiency on open maps by dedicating themselves to being cavalry, but it also brings that bad part, they'll have difficulties when the maps are less favourable.

How many city map on Eu_1? Port assault ... Nord Town ... and the market thingy. Ok, we have 3 city maps on EU_1. Now i wonder how many open maps there is on EU_1. I couldn't count them, but there is much more of them and there's a city maybe every 6 or 7 maps. So having fun every 6 or 7 maps for an inf isn't enough (imo) to let him think that maps are "balanced" (i saw someone (stupid or hypocrite, dunno) saying that there is 50% city maps ... Pure bullshit).


Anyway, there's no point in discussing about crpg's problem on this forum, our wise and clever (i let you guess if it's ironical or not) devs who surely play a lot said that the amount of cav and ranged on EU_1 is totally ok.

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

You forgot to mention half of the village maps, commercial city, swadian riot and a tonne more. I seriously think you are not playing on the same server I am. Eu1 right?

[IR_Kuoin]

Remove Chagans GK friendly maps, problem half-solved 

(click to show/hide)

Nah, love your maps Chagan