Author Topic: Surely I am not the only one  (Read 3213 times)

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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2012, 11:21:37 am »
+1
It's a bit ridiculous for "western" countries to snipe at each other about how intolerant and non-progressive certain parts of their populations may be when the vast majority of the rest of the world doesn't ascribe to the same multicultural values and couldn't give less of a shit how they are perceived. Japan and China are not only vastly more xenophobic and closed in on themselves than any "western" country, they have no societal taboo about it whatsoever. The shit they say about "black" people and the way they are treated in their popular media would make a backwards KKK hillbilly redneck blush with shame.   

This kind of self-flagellation (as demonstrated by the Carlin skit. I love the guy, he's hilarious, but historically a lot of the shit he says here just doesn't make sense) is almost arrogant in a sense. As if "white" people's prejudices and racism are the only ones that ever existed or had a negative impact on other ethnicities. That kind of ethnic collectivist hatefullness is basically a human trait. Pretending "white" people are a sort of abhorrent anomaly is disingenuous and kind of idealistic. If only eliminating it was as simple as eliminating the idea of one particular constructed ethnicity. Too bad about the hundreds of others. 
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Offline Molly

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2012, 12:23:19 pm »
0
It's a bit ridiculous for "western" countries to snipe at each other about how intolerant and non-progressive certain parts of their populations may be when the vast majority of the rest of the world doesn't ascribe to the same multicultural values and couldn't give less of a shit how they are perceived. Japan and China are not only vastly more xenophobic and closed in on themselves than any "western" country, they have no societal taboo about it whatsoever. The shit they say about "black" people and the way they are treated in their popular media would make a backwards KKK hillbilly redneck blush with shame.   

This kind of self-flagellation (as demonstrated by the Carlin skit. I love the guy, he's hilarious, but historically a lot of the shit he says here just doesn't make sense) is almost arrogant in a sense. As if "white" people's prejudices and racism are the only ones that ever existed or had a negative impact on other ethnicities. That kind of ethnic collectivist hatefullness is basically a human trait. Pretending "white" people are a sort of abhorrent anomaly is disingenuous and kind of idealistic. If only eliminating it was as simple as eliminating the idea of one particular constructed ethnicity. Too bad about the hundreds of others.
Could you gimme the link to the article you c&p'd this from?  8-)
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Offline Corwin

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2012, 12:24:15 pm »
0
There is one important difference. Chinese and Japanese never exploited black people, while some white people enslaved them, committed genocides against them, devastate their countries, manipulate them in ways that left scars for generations etc. While on the other hand, Chinese and Japs absolutely have no reason feel black guilt and are more relaxed.
I mean, what have you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing, you're going back to nothing, what have you lost? Nothing!

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2012, 12:29:33 pm »
0
Most smaller European nations never exploited black people, simply due to not being colonial powers.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2012, 12:43:16 pm »
0
True.

But in those countries we have gypsies which are exploited in many ways every day :wink:

Still, we're more tolerant than french people:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194704/Saint-Priest-Police-clear-Roma-gypsy-camps-France.html

Vive la Révolution

:lol:

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2012, 12:44:13 pm »
+2
Gypsies? Exploited? Don't you mean gypsies exploiting those countries?

Offline Vibe

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2012, 12:48:51 pm »
+3
Yeah what the shit, the gypsies/romani people we have here are nothing but trouble, stealing shit, not paying taxes, begging for money and being generally disgusting. Last time I walked to the store I saw a romani woman pissing on the walkway right infront of the store, like some fucking dog.

Have some material outside of your house unlocked? GG, gypsies will come and grab even the smallest piece of iron or wood, like it's the fucking post apocalypse and they're trying to build a fortress.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2012, 12:52:42 pm »
-1
Here where I live, gypsies are poor people and they aren't exploiting anyone.

They are regular targets for neo chocolate chip cookie kids, though. State usually does nothing about it.

Dunno how it is in France but I doubt they are exploiting those hard working white french citizens.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2012, 12:59:45 pm »
+1
There is one important difference. Chinese and Japanese never exploited black people, while some white people enslaved them, committed genocides against them, devastate their countries, manipulate them in ways that left scars for generations etc. While on the other hand, Chinese and Japs absolutely have no reason feel black guilt and are more relaxed.

I never enslaved or killed anyone. Why should I feel guilt? Do all black people collectively feel guilt over the khoisan and pygmy genocides due to Bantu expansion in Africa? Do they all collectively feel guilt over the continued slavery and racism against the few pygmies still left alive in the Congo? After all, it's being perpetrated by "black" people. The idea that because someone is the same skin color as me I am automatically responsible for their actions is...kind of racist? I'm not part of some Borg "white" hive-mind collective, sorry.

Japanese people also tend to whitewash their actions in WW2, focusing mostly on how they were poor victims of the first nuclear weapons. Do you think they feel any less relaxed about the virrulent racism they continue to hold against chinese people to this day, and vice-versa, despite a very recent war that claimed millions of innocent civilians, backed by a sense of racial superiority? Ethnic cleansings and rivalries were the norm throughout most of human history, anyone who has even a cursory knowledge of the history of civilizations and war knows this. And it continues to be the norm for most of the world population.

Multiculturalism, secularism and the ideology behind it is entirely and uniquely "western", linked to enlightenement era values that we used to give lip service to instead of actually following. The idea that we hold ourselves to this higher standard while forgiving other, "less powerful" ethnicties for the same crimes reeks of White Man's Burden. As if "white" people really are so powerful and dominant that a change in their ethnic identities will be enough to eradicate racism and prejudice worldwide.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 01:02:59 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2012, 01:01:34 pm »
0
Gypsies have a hard time fitting in because they mostly still have a nomadic culture. It's not really too difficult to understand why they tend to run afoul of sedentary types, if you aren't a complete retard, like Leshma. And considering most of the romani are "white" themselves, it's most definetely a cultural thing. They look no different than a lot of other medditeranean types.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 01:05:54 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2012, 01:08:24 pm »
0
I once met a gypsie who said she could tell me my fortune.

I told her to piss off
She said: Im gonna curse you!
Me: No, im gonna CURSE YOU!
She: Really? With what curse?
Me: Im cursing you into a gypsie for life!
She:.......

Offline Arathian

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2012, 09:39:18 am »
+2
Gypsies have a hard time fitting in because they mostly still have a nomadic culture. It's not really too difficult to understand why they tend to run afoul of sedentary types, if you aren't a complete retard, like Leshma. And considering most of the romani are "white" themselves, it's most definetely a cultural thing. They look no different than a lot of other medditeranean types.

You probably haven't seen medditeranean people then. Gypsies look nothing like, say, Greeks. They look far more like Pakistanis (mainly because probably they come from, roughly, the area around Pakistan)

also, Leshma: we exploit gypsies? Really? Reeeeally? Last time I checked, they were the ones that outright refused to register to get an ID, to send their kids to school or to settle down.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2012, 10:40:50 am »
+2
Europe was that place during the dark ages, right, with King Arthur and shit?

That's Britain. Not Europe jeez.

There is one important difference. Chinese and Japanese never exploited black people, while some white people enslaved them, committed genocides against them, devastate their countries, manipulate them in ways that left scars for generations etc. While on the other hand, Chinese and Japs absolutely have no reason feel black guilt and are more relaxed.

They just exploited everyone else instead. No it's got nothing to do with that. Hell African nations enslaved each other for ages. The Ottoman Empire enslaved 1000's upon 1000's or European's. Much of the European coastline still has watchtowers which were there to watch for Ottoman slave galleys who regularly raided coastal towns and villages. I think it is just the attitude. I know plenty of Indian people who will openly, and loudly, insult most other races in a way that would be deemed incredibly racist. They just don't give a shit. And most other cultures do it to. The West just has a ridiculous guilt complex.

I never enslaved or killed anyone. Why should I feel guilt? Do all black people collectively feel guilt over the khoisan and pygmy genocides due to Bantu expansion in Africa? Do they all collectively feel guilt over the continued slavery and racism against the few pygmies still left alive in the Congo? After all, it's being perpetrated by "black" people. The idea that because someone is the same skin color as me I am automatically responsible for their actions is...kind of racist? I'm not part of some Borg "white" hive-mind collective, sorry.

Japanese people also tend to whitewash their actions in WW2, focusing mostly on how they were poor victims of the first nuclear weapons. Do you think they feel any less relaxed about the virrulent racism they continue to hold against chinese people to this day, and vice-versa, despite a very recent war that claimed millions of innocent civilians, backed by a sense of racial superiority? Ethnic cleansings and rivalries were the norm throughout most of human history, anyone who has even a cursory knowledge of the history of civilizations and war knows this. And it continues to be the norm for most of the world population.

Yeah just look at Hellfire Pass and the railway through there. Built on the backs of the enslaved and prisoners of war where 1000's died. The Japanese are no better than anyone else. I certainly don't feel guilt over slavery. It had nothing to do with me. There was an interesting article where the great great grandson of some big slave trader went to Africa to apologise for his families actions. I remember thinking what the fuck? No one alive now was even involved in any of what his family did. Apologising to the ancestors means shit when you're an ancestor yourself.

Regardless that's not to say that racism is right. I just don't see why we should fear it quite so much and it should be quite as big a taboo as it is. Sure if someone is yelling someone down in the street with racist insults then that's wrong. Even acting outright differently towards others of a different race can be wrong as in reality we are all one and the same. But there shouldn't be any pussyfooting around incase we accidentally insult each other. Or fear making a joke out of it. I will happily imitate my girlfriends indian accent and clean her skin with a vacuum cleaner as a joke and she'll always laugh at me when I get sunburnt and call me pastey white boy.

There's a new show on the BBC called 'Citizen Khan' which is a comedy about a Pakistani family. It received something like 600 complaints (fairly high despite several million viewers) for being racist. Funnily enough the majority of people who complained where white. And many Pakistani's think it's hilarious because there is a lot of truth behind it. Just shows how much our view has been fucked by a fear of being racist and a need to always be politically correct.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 11:05:44 am by Overdriven »

Offline JackieChan

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 04:21:13 am »
0
Regarding the OP:

I think they illustrated the front page of that book in that way to show how other cultures and "races" influenced Europe and its developement (thus the title "making Europe") especially just before and after the industrial revolution (look at the dress of the man in the picture, its from the 1700-1800) as that was the highlight of  colonialism and imperialism (European countries expanding on underdevelopped countries and taking their wealth for their own profit).

Anyway thats my opinion, i might be totally wrong :P
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 05:28:21 am by JackieChan »
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Offline Kirbyy

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Re: Surely I am not the only one
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 10:37:28 pm »
-1
That is just so... wrong.

xD I just see this in your signature, right after reading your post.

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