A Sensible way to Balance Strength

[clown1231]

Before you flame me or -1 the topic, hear me out.

One of the best things (IMO) about cRPG is that you get to chose what you want to play. You're not stuck with the generic builds of Native, and you get to choose your equipment. This means that most people end up with very different characters. Of course, this does lead to trollable things, such as horse archery and invincible shields, but I believe that the benefits outweigh the few problems.

Today, however, one can simply pump strength and be fine. No need for agility in today's builds. I think that if we change one thing about strength, the spectrum of available builds can increase. The intention here isn't to stop people from playing 39 strength characters, it's to increase the validity of builds that incorporate more agility into their lifestyle.

The idea I have is to put a soft cap on the weight penalty reduction that strength provides. In turn, however, increase the bonuses from ironflesh and powerstrike by 1 damage/HP. This, in a way, will balance itself out.

• The no AGI builds will be slower, but will do more damage and be harder to take down
• The moderate builds with 15 AGI or more
• The AGI builds won't gain anything from this, except that they will continue to be at their same speed, while the stronger ones in medium-heavy armor will be slightly slower.

Feedback is appreciated, as well as how to improve this suggestion.

[XyNox]

I agree, str builds are too viable atm. There is a very simple solution that does not need much coding and has been suggested a few times:

Remove free wpf per level and in turn buff wpf gain from WM.

If you wanna hit faster you have to get WM. If you wanna be a str crutcher that wants to oneshot people you should be slow.

[Bobthehero]

WPF also increases damage, something I play with a longsword on my swashbuckler guy, and I feel like I do less damage witht the 1 WPF I have with my longsword than with the 1h and 135 wpf.

Longsword's not loom either, so that might be it.

[rustyspoon]

The balance between strength and agility is fine as is.

Strength makes it faster to kill bad players and lets you make more mistakes.

Agility makes you more flexible and makes it easier to deal with multiple opponents.

Agility builds can easily have damage outputs similar to strength builds with a combination of held attacks, speed bonus and WPF. I was wrecking people with a 6/33 build earlier today.

Each has their benefits and drawbacks, though I still think balanced builds are king: 18/18, 21/18, 18/21, 21/21.

[Bulzur]

Hopefully, the new wpf curve will balance things out.
As it is now, STR build are "tiny-slightly-littlebit" better than AGI, in hands of very good player. Footwork start getting more important than brutal strength, so balanced builds are the preference choice.

In the hands of bad player, STR build are "OP" compared to AGI.

[Leshma]

The balance between strength and agility is fine as is.
Each has their benefits and drawbacks, though I still think balanced builds are king: 18/18, 21/18, 18/21, 21/21.

And that's why NA is full of full STR builds?

[Uumdi]

Yeah, in regular battle setting, agility has its place, but what I noticed, and not to pick on strat 3.0, but when it came to massive melee situations with heavy armor, str was much more effective.  I was fine with a balanced build, able to duck out of the way of pikes going through the moshpit, but the killing power of strength is effective, because lets be honest, people will always make mistakes. 

Battle server, you're better able to maneuver, support your friends, single targets out, and flank, but in the massive melee engagements, 27/12 is probably the most effective build still, and allows you to function if you plan on sinking with the ship and taking out as many tickets as you possibly can in the process.  36/3 builds are excessive and terrible, and are nothing to be afraid of really, but those 27/12's that are the real dangers right now.  I don't rightly think we should take that away from them though - I played 27/12, and it should still be an outstanding build.  We'll see what the new wpf curve does I imagine.

People can always play smarter though, you know?  Creative flank maneuvers that require a ton more thought and risk might be possible with some organization, but right now strength is not only efficient at dealing damage, but also necessary to make aggressive pushes in large battles.

On the other hand, 18/21, 7 WM builds do outstanding damage, though you lack some ironflesh.

[Leshma]

Speed bonus works both ways, you deal serious damage but if you miss you take epic damage too. Strength builds take normal damage while dealing serious amounts of damage.

[Tears of Destiny]

Tydeus sported that 27/12 build for ages if I remember correctly, with his ever-lasting Miaodao/Litchina Helm/Churburg Cuirass combo. Even in my incompetent hands it is a nasty build.

[Leshma]

From realism standpoint, anything bellow 15 strength is a small boy, weak man at best (not fitting for battle) and anything above 24 strength isn't human being. But this is a game and not very realistic game so it's okay to have more choices.

Same goes for ath, 9 ath is wtf Usain Bolt and 10 ath is Benny Hill Show...

[Vibe]

Before you flame me or -1 the topic, hear me out.

One of the best things (IMO) about cRPG is that you get to chose what you want to play. You're not stuck with the generic builds of Native, and you get to choose your equipment. This means that most people end up with very different characters. Of course, this does lead to trollable things, such as horse archery and invincible shields, but I believe that the benefits outweigh the few problems.

Today, however, one can simply pump strength and be fine. No need for agility in today's builds. I think that if we change one thing about strength, the spectrum of available builds can increase. The intention here isn't to stop people from playing 39 strength characters, it's to increase the validity of builds that incorporate more agility into their lifestyle.

The idea I have is to put a soft cap on the weight penalty reduction that strength provides. In turn, however, increase the bonuses from ironflesh and powerstrike by 1 damage/HP. This, in a way, will balance itself out.

• The no AGI builds will be slower, but will do more damage and be harder to take down
• The moderate builds with 15 AGI or more
• The AGI builds won't gain anything from this, except that they will continue to be at their same speed, while the stronger ones in medium-heavy armor will be slightly slower.

Feedback is appreciated, as well as how to improve this suggestion.

There is no weight penalty reduction that strength provides.

[[ptx]]

There is no weight penalty reduction that strength provides.

I think he was referring to armor weight penalty on movement speed or something. Afaik, strength reduces the impact of heavy armour.

[Vibe]

I think he was referring to armor weight penalty on movement speed or something. Afaik, strength reduces the impact of heavy armour.

It doesn't http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/just-another-test-this-time-strength-and-movement-speed/

The agi part is true; the strength part was false some days/weeks ago, when (on the website) you could read while pointing your cursor on strenght <<reduces the movement speed penalty caused by weight>> in a tooltip. Now this tooltip is gone.

Just because a tooltip says it doesn't mean it's true.

[[ptx]]

Whoop, okay then.

[OssumPawesome]

I don't think this change would do very much, and I'm also not sure its in the right direction.  I wouldn't mind agi builds being more powerful.  But people should be sped up rather than slowed down imo.