My item balancing thread

[DaveUKR]

Hi, this is my item balance thread. In this thread I'll make suggestions for weapons' stats. Suggested stats are highly reasoned (comparing to other weapons, weapon class and weapon properties). I'll appreciate discussing but not whining or raging. These items are just suggestions and with a high chance they won't be accepted to official crpg item list (item balancers cba to read such threads). I will try to update it from time to time.

Twohanders.

Longsword
This weapon is currently unbalanced. It's currently 1180g more expensive than Heavy Bastard Sword which is better (has the same stats as you can see, 1 length shorter but 0.2 weight heavier that makes it a better weapon).
Verdict: give Longsword +1 thrust damage. 23 pierce is not cool for such weapon since most of even onehanders in this price niche have more powerful thrust.
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[v/onMega]

Correct request if you ask me.

Next in line, two handed sword.
1 more speed + 2 more length (just imo)

[Lange]

Next, make the Sword of War sexier, to reduce the amount of Danish GS.

[DaveUKR]

Next, make the Sword of War sexier, to reduce the amount of Danish GS.

Being overused doesn't mean it's needed to nerf it or buff other weapons. I only look on stats. And I personally think that SoW is better than DGS statwise (3051g price difference for 1 thrust damage, 3 points of length and 1 speed less)

[Corwin]

I used both MW Longsword and MW HBS and while they are both wicked weapons and while the price difference doesn't make sense, there is one big difference IMO. HBS just looks terrible and it is harder to see than Longsword. Therefore, my choice would ALWAYS be longsword, even though it is more expensive.


MW Longsword (and HBS) has now 25 pierce which is quite a lot, if one more point would be added that would be as much as Danish. I am not sure if I would like this considering the speed of this sword. To increase cut would mean to make another cheaper version of katana. Maybe give longsword one or two more length instead?

[DaveUKR]

I used both MW Longsword and MW HBS and while they are both wicked weapons and while the price difference doesn't make sense, there is one big difference IMO. HBS just looks terrible and it is harder to see than Longsword. Therefore, my choice would ALWAYS be longsword, even though it is more expensive.


MW Longsword (and HBS) has now 25 pierce which is quite a lot, if one more point would be added that would be as much as Danish. I am not sure if I would like this considering the speed of this sword. To increase cut would mean to make another cheaper version of katana. Maybe give longsword one or two more length instead?

What's wrong with Longsword having the same amount of pierce damage as Danish? Look at 1handers with the same price niche: Broad Short Sword 26 pierce, Long Arming Sword 24 pierce, Italian Sword 25 pierce. Lolstab problem got fixed, you can't rotate like mad and it's just stupid that onehanded weapons have more powerful thrust than 2hs.

[DaveUKR]

Correct request if you ask me.

Next in line, two handed sword.
1 more speed + 2 more length (just imo)

Agree about 1 more speed, don't agree about more length.

[Corwin]

Can't compare two hand stab with one hand, the animation is very different, its lot slower, you can see one hander stabbing from miles away. I am just thinking that longsword is way too fast for that kind of thrust damage. I may be wrong though, I don't know much about balancing, not everyone can be Fasader. 

Derp.

[Leshma]

If you ask me, in order to lessen number of greatswords, Longsword, HBS and Bastard Sword should be buffed. Hell, I'd even buff Katana at this point.

Longsword +1 cut +1 pierce
HBS +1 pierce
Bastard +2 pierce

Problem with this is that most americans won't agree because longsword has different status on their servers. Perfectly reasonable, considering the fact that they have STR builds and greatswords are indeed slowish with those builds. That's why they use longsword.

But that doesn't mean that longsword is OP, it's merely good weapon and a quite lot worse than any decent greatsword (I've tested this on my char). Same goes with Bec. Every EU player knows it's rubbish but on NA it's still good because ages ago great players used it...

Also one handed swords deserve serious buff, speed they have can't compensate for animation advantage twohanders have. Every greatsword user will backpedal stab and if you don't have enough ath you'll have issues to get in facehug range. Even then, there's kick to help them. Because all of that, one handed swords deserve damage buff which should put them on bastard sword's level, damage wise. Put some penalty when they are used with a shield if you think that's easy (but actually it's not) but please buff those swords.

With 5 PS, 6 ATH and MW KAS with 26 pierce stab I glance all the time on horses. Longsword with 25 pierce stab never glances, even with 1 wpp...

Btw. just because Kastu owns people with his MW onehander and agi build doesn't mean one handed weapons are OP. Kastu with greatswords have like 50-1 scores every map...

[DaveUKR]

Can't compare two hand stab with one hand, the animation is very different, its lot slower, you can see one hander stabbing from miles away. I am just thinking that longsword is way too fast for that kind of thrust damage. I may be wrong though, I don't know much about balancing, not everyone can be Fasader. 

Derp.

I think that you're wrong, 1h stab is faster (it's ultra fast on horses) since weapons are faster themselves. Plus it's just different, you can't thrust anyone on clusterfuck. Plus onehander thrust is not as easy to chamber as 2hander. And it's completely wrong that onehanders have more powerful thrust than twohanders. There are two ways - buff twohander thrust or nerf onehanders.

[Leshma]

You should try using that OP one handed thrust for some time, Dave, to get a full picture before asking for 1H swords nerf

[DaveUKR]

If you ask me, in order to lessen number of greatswords, Longsword, HBS and Bastard Sword should be buffed. Hell, I'd even buff Katana at this point.

Longsword +1 cut +1 pierce
HBS +1 pierce
Bastard +2 pierce

Problem with this is that most americans won't agree because longsword has different status on their servers. Perfectly reasonable, considering the fact that they have STR builds and greatswords are indeed slowish with those builds. That's why they use longsword.

But that doesn't mean that longsword is OP, it's merely good weapon and a quite lot worse than any decent greatsword (I've tested this on my char). Same goes with Bec. Every EU player knows it's rubbish but on NA it's still good because ages ago great players used it...

Also one handed swords deserve serious buff, speed they have can't compensate for animation advantage twohanders have. Every greatsword user will backpedal stab and if you don't have enough ath you'll have issues to get in facehug range. Even then, there's kick to help them. Because all of that, one handed swords deserve damage buff which should put them on bastard sword's level, damage wise. Put some penalty when they are used with a shield if you think that's easy (but actually it's not) but please buff those swords.

With 5 PS, 6 ATH and MW KAS with 26 pierce stab I glance all the time on horses. Longsword with 25 pierce stab never glances, even with 1 wpp...

Btw. just because Kastu owns people with his MW onehander and agi build doesn't mean one handed weapons are OP. Kastu with greatswords have like 50-1 scores every map...

you get it all wrong. Onehander should never be on the same level as twohander. And onehander should never have a single advantage over twohander on the field. Onehanders have a lot of other things which make them useful: 1slot, cheaper price, ability to use shield, ability to be used on horseback. And my personal opinion that blunt/pierce onehanders need a damage nerf. I'll repeat - you can't judge about weapons because they're good in hands of someone or bad, overused or not used at all. I only look at stats.

You should try using that OP one handed thrust for some time, Dave, to get a full picture before asking for 1H swords nerf

Nothing wrong with that since it's easy as hell to hit the head via first person camera.

[Leshma]

In order to use that one hander on a horse and with a shield you need to spent decent amount of skill points in those skill categories. Which means you'll end up with a worse build than most twohanders have, when it comes to power/speed.

Also, with greatsword you don't need a horse or a shield. All you need is an agi build, medium armor and a brain. You can counter everything, cavalry especially.

Using first person camera as an argument...

[DaveUKR]

In order to use that one hander on a horse and with a shield you need to spent decent amount of skill points in those skill categories. Which means you'll end up with a worse build than most twohanders have, when it comes to power/speed.

Also, with greatsword you don't need a horse or a shield. All you need is an agi build, medium armor and a brain. You can counter everything, cavalry especially.

Using first person camera as an argument...

What can you do against my arbalest with your agi twohander?

[Lange]

Being overused doesn't mean it's needed to nerf it or buff other weapons. I only look on stats. And I personally think that SoW is better than DGS statwise (3051g price difference for 1 thrust damage, 3 points of length and 1 speed less)

...
Should have been more precise. I totally aggree; the only problem with the SoW is it's uglyness. Give it a cool model and everyone will jump on it.