A catchy title to start a debate.

[Malaclypse]

Two slot bows require more than 133 wpp in archery to be effective.

With 6 WM you'll be sitting at 156ish prof, and at least under the current way things work, you don't need any prof to be effective with a 1-hand sidearm, just powerstrike.

[Miwiw]

That's possible Leshma. There are really good hybrid builds, as Mala said. 18/18 is the perfect example for that.

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Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 63

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 6
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 91
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 140
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

91 Melee wpf is enough for melee fighting, either 1h or 2h (mace, langes messer whatever). 140 Archery wpf is a bit low but enough for Horn Bow and Rus Bow. I would go to around 160 wpf if taking Long Bow though (all mw ofc, if not, get more wpf for a proper aim!).

The only problem then is that you can only have 1 stack of arrows with a 2 slot bow and 1 slot weapon. Loomed Bodkin stacks are 17 arrows. Not enough for siege, not enough for a battle round to play as Archer. Then you have to go melee at some point. And if you don't want to do that and still want to use a 2 slot bow, there is no reason to use a hybrid build. Then its more wise to rather go full Archery, get more wpf, another stack of arrows and only a hammer, stick or whatever.

I enjoyed being 18/18 and played one gen with it. The next gen I went 18/21 without any melee and really enjoyed Archery. 1 stack of arrows is really a problem as battle-player.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

That is because my unwillingness to adapt is because adapting would reduce my hands on time with the 4 directional deliciousness that makes this game into what it is, you know, the thing that got most of us to put 1000+ hours into this shit.

Their unwillingness to adapt comes from an incomprehensible unwillingness to play this game instead of your generic shooter but then with a bit more projectile drop, which could be easily fixed. Running away isn't fun for anyone, so disable them from doing it. What I am talking about is flawed game mechanics which should be changed. Not everyone's wish can be fulfilled. I would like to have a jetpack with hellfire missiles mounted on it, but that hardly be fun for anyone else. Same with running, apart from that not even being fun for themselves.

I once kited Vex with 0 ath for a while, it was the funnest thing ever.

Yeah, yeah, I sound like a douche, it's late and I'm tired.

It's just that the shoot and run archery mechanics are not like archery should be and we all know it. The fact that it's pretty easy to fix, yet won't ever happen, made me the bitter my old friend that I am know when it comes to archery.

Did you read what I said at all? My point is exactly that they shouldn't be forced to play half naked with a hammer and no wpf. They should be forced to have armor, have a good weapon, have wpf, have powerstrike while keeping their ranged strength the same. The thing is, if you give them more room for melee capabilities now, they will just go, 'lol instead of 80 1h wpf, I'll just go 8 more archery wpf, cause I can run away anyway'.

My entire post is about changing the game mechanics cause they are flawed, and yet you ramble on about the current mechanics.

Teeth, they don't have to do that, current archer mechanics allow for some decent body armor with NO penalties... and they can easily switch ath for ps, and they can easily switch 4 archery wpf for 49 melee wpf, they got fine melee capabilities, they just need the POSSIBILITY to make a gay kiting build removed, 'cuss else they'll abuse it, once they can't kite they'll need a slight ranged buff, but, besides that, nuthin'.

They won't make hybrids, unless they are forced to. They will just go pure archery, because they have the ability to kite. Take away kiting, and they'll have to hybridize. Which will leave them as very weak archers. Therefore, buff their melee capabilities and force them on them, by removing kiting.
REMOVE KITING!

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Two slot bows require more than 133 wpp in archery to be effective.

Then use this:

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lvl 29
18/21
6pd
6ps
7wm
1ath

160 my old friendchery wpf
49 wpf in whatever the fuck they decide.

fucking build

[Tears of Destiny]

You seriously want me to melee anyone with 1 athletics?

You can barely do footwork, you can't dodge cavalry, you can't disengage, you can't pursue, you can't keep up with even the slowest melee fighters and thus will always be left behind.

Dead man walking unless you play only siege.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

You seriously want me to melee anyone with 1 athletics?

Tears, 1 ath is not that bad, and, I already said, you can get 4 ath once you hit 30...
Anyway, if you were EU I'd challenge you to a duel were I use a 1 ath build and a MW danish greatsword.  Move to EU Tears!

[Teeth]

Archers are going to need a buff exclusively to their melee capabilities, come on Zlisch, otherwise they would be gimped as fuck. Especially armor wise, they should be able to wear more armor without it fucking them over. Peasant archers are ridiculous anyway. 14th century longbowmen had steel helmets and brigandines. Oh and guess what, a sword aswell. Yes they were kept out of melee if possible, but they could stand and fight rather efficiently aswell.

And where are them damn deployable stakes, would be fun.

[Tears of Destiny]

Fine, I'll bring my 1ATHL 1WM 12PS and 12IF character for the lulz. I'll still die though even not counting the ping difference due to my one-button mouse.

Regardless, 1 ATHL is suicide for an archer. This is not Duels, this is Battle where you will be overrun or caved to death with one athl, not to mention being useless for quickly taking up positions.

Have you tried playing an Archer with only 1 ATHL? I have done 0, 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10. Anything less then 5 is just too painful.

if you can make that 1THL character be competitive as a melee/archer hybrid, then super kudos to you for being super duper awesome. I can't do it.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Teeth, they got 10 (or is it 15) weight with no penalties, and they can go slightly over that with no big issues, so, if it's ten, they can wear a Skutatos, which, unloomed, is 37 body armor, and 6 leg armor, they could have 6 ps with the build I just posted, and if it's 15, Sarranid guard armor, 47 unloomed, not bad, and, they can go over those limits slightly without a big penalty.

[Tzar]

Go play siege problem solved EU 1 is for scrubs.. if you cant stand lame game play which involves kiting an backstapping lancers ect ect eu1 is not for you..

Archers are the biggest scrub class along with lancer cav everyone can do it if they have enough money...

Also i agree with SgtTeeh Archery is broken but someone on the dev team wants archery to be what is now so i guess we wont see changes...

Deprav shield are useless

1. u cant use your weapon when having it out.

2. it slows you down

3. u wont be able to catch an archer with a shield

4. even if u did he would just hold his draw and....

A. sidestep shoot you any medicore archer can do it..

B. Wait for you to draw your weapon an then shoot you

I'll still die though even not counting the ping difference due to my one-button mouse.

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Plus your fuckin terrible at this game.

[Teeth]

one-button mouse.

Seriously?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Have you tried playing an Archer with only 1 ATHL? I have done 0, 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10. Anything less then 5 is just too painful.

if you can make that 1THL character be competitive as a melee/archer hybrid, then super kudos to you for being super duper awesome. I can't do it.

Tears, I told you, it'd be 4 at level 30, and, my archer alt, SoA_NCB_The_Unupkeepable, is 15/21, admittedly I got 7 ath here, but I wear heavy armor with this char, so it's basically 4 I'd guess.
And tears, map your block button to some other key!

[Teeth]

Oh yes deprav, Tzar brings up a point I forgot about.

You're telling me to incorporate a shield in my build, as I earlier mentioned being a shielder is not an option for me. A shield is fucking useless as a 2h or a polearm. Why? You can't use it while fighting, 80% of your time is spent fighting, which is when I get shot.

If I need to approach 1 archer I don't need a shield. Dodging works reasonably well. It's the multiple archers spreading out and crossfiring me that gets me, or I get shot while fighting. A shield is useless apart for actual shielders.

[Thomek]

I like Teeths idea here.. We need an idea for cav too though. Way too much power for a few points in riding and a bit of cash.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

We need an idea for cav too though. Way too much power for a few points in riding and a bit of cash.

Make heavy lance 3 slot, remove blocking from heavy lance, only solution, only nerf required.