Are Hoplites Still Viable?

[clown1231]

Hey, Clown1231 here.

I was wondering, is a hoplite style build still viable? Of course, without spin it would be purely a support role.

Also, I'd like to know what a good build would be. I'll be looking to use a 1hander as well, since I have a +2 Langes Messer that I'll likely loom a third time when I hit 31.

[Bjord]

Hey, Clown1231 here.

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[Leshma]

If you have enough ATH, you can duel some (bad) players. With less than 5 ATH you'll have to play as support.

Kinda gimped tbh, but can be fun at times.

[San]

Still decent for anticav and support. Sometimes cav can dodge in situations where you would've easily stopped them with the old turn, though.

[Zanze]

Extremely viable, but definitely the hardest class to play. From my experience, with a great shielder you can 2v5+ and come out on top easily. I've done it back to back with Diggles many times. I haven't fought 5+ with non-shielders and come out on top, but I've done 2v4's with Sosarian and come out with both of us not taking a single hit so I'm sure it is possible. You are EXTREMELY dependent on your teammates.

Now, that was all about team fights. You WILL NOT be a duelist. If you begin dueling someone, you WILL lose. When fighting most people, I rely on a maximum of three free hits I can get off out of trickery. If they are still alive after ~3 hits, you NEED to put the shield on your back. They won't fall to your jump stab or spin stab antics after that unless they are as smart as a broken lamppost. For general situations, I HIGHLY recommend the light lance. It is the perfect mixture of length, speed, and damage for a hoplites weapon. However, there are a few specialized hoplite spears.

Light Lance: Again, the general jack of all trades. Have this as your default.

• Length: 4/5
• Damage: 3/5
• Speed: 3/5

Ashwood Pike: Close quarters support, maximize damage at the cost of some length.

• Length:3/5
• Damage:4/5
• Speed:3/5

War Spear: When you simply can't find a teammate to stick with and keep running into duelists.

• Length:2/5
• Damage:3/5
• Speed: 5/5

Lance: When you know your shield will not break and you will be playing mainly support. Do not duel with it, it is too slow. You get a little extra length over the light lance with the same damage as the ashwood.

• Length:4/5
• Damage:4/5
• Speed:1/5

Battle Fork: The ultimate close quarters spear. Will not rear horses, will not support anyone. WILL kill people if you hit.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:5/5
• Speed:3/5

Pitch Fork / Fauchard: Cost effective horse killers. Nothing more. Infantry laugh at your attempts to hurt them and you are not a dependable support to your teammates.

• Length:2/5 & 4/5
• Damage:1/5
• Speed:3/5

Iron Staff: Only listing this to prevent Xeen from yelling at me for not mentioning. Has Knockdown, does ok damage. No length. I recommended against usage.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:3/5
• Speed:5/5

Bamboo Spear: Ultimate support weapon. Does ok damage at ok speed. Godlike length. Do not duel with it without putting the shield on your back, way too long.

• Length:5/5
• Damage:2/5
• Speed:3/5

Double-Sided Lance: For Oohilac, high damage and a good speed. Extremely short. Do not use to support teammates, pretend its a shorter cooler looking battle fork and go to town.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:5/5
• Speed:4/5

[San]

^ Nice post. From the looks of it, there are a variety of weapons to choose from. I did not know of some quirks like the iron staff.

Whether you want to anti-cav, anti-inf, or some mix of the two, there are enough options there. Sheathable polearms usable with shield go up to 172 length with the fauchard. Pure polearm hoplites as well as 1h/spear users are both extremely competent in battle, being able to play as all around defensive support (cav,inf,ranged) while having options to remain viable against ranged and 1v1s.

I think the strength hoplite style wasn't really affected too much with the polestagger removal and turn radius nerf. I can't really say for the really high wpf/agi users, however.

[Zanze]

Turn radius nerf is a BUFF to the hoplite class. You can now actively dodge attacks and get free hits.

[Uumdi]

Yeah hoplite is still awesome support and anti-cav.  I recommend a sidearm, but you can put the shield away and use a spear just fine.  Zanze laid it out really well. 

Bamboo is excellent, cheap, best length for support.  I'd argue that the Ashwood Pike is the best hoplite weapon available, because 30p and 166 length is phenominal.  People forget its 93 base speed, so 94 heirloomed.  When you use a spear and shield, you get a really awesome reach bonus, so you're gonna outrange any other support player who isn't a longspear/pikeman still such as a swiss halberd or english bill.

Fork and Double-sided Lance give you style points and would work well in close quarters.  Then again, so do 1hers with 4 directions.

Its a ton of fun though, give it a shot.

[To Kill A Dead Horse]

throwing lance is the best

[Digglez]

PROTIP: dont thrust into shields or blocks. biggest mistake most hoplites make.  unless you have multi attackers ganging on an individual and are trying to prevent them from firing off and attack at all.  Make sure to stagger your attacks to land at different time from your teammates.

[Joseph Porta]

PROTIP: dont thrust into shields or blocks. biggest mistake most hoplites make.  unless you have multi attackers ganging on an individual and are trying to prevent them from firing off and attack at all.  Make sure to stagger your attacks to land at different time from your teammates.

Quite a usefull tip! Time to try it out!

[callahan9119]

Shortened spear is pretty good too, I saw some guy rocking that thing.

[clown1231]

Thanks everyone, you've been quite a help, especially Zanze's post on the different polearm strengths/weaknesses. Of course, I'll still be testing it on a Skip the Fun character. In 3 days I'll be testing it out. In the meantime, would anyone like to suggest a decent build?

Edit: Whoops, forgot to check the guides section, I'll read that now, it should give me any more information that I need.

[callahan9119]

Thanks everyone, you've been quite a help, especially Zanze's post on the different polearm strengths/weaknesses. Of course, I'll still be testing it on a Skip the Fun character. In 3 days I'll be testing it out. In the meantime, would anyone like to suggest a decent build?

Edit: Whoops, forgot to check the guides section, I'll read that now, it should give me any more information that I need.

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 65
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 6
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 5
Polearm: 148

Maybe this? It all comes down to what you want...fast, hard hitting (as much as a hoplite can) or balanced. You could as an alternative go 5 ironflesh, 6 weapon master and dual spec pole and 1 hander (for close quarters/dueling) or pole and throwing.

Do what you think is most fun.

[Laufknoten]

1 vs 1 as Hoplite is possible and not only against mentally retarded players. With a short lance and enough athletics you can do pretty well in 1 vs 1 because people underestimate your range, speed and damage.
Currently I'm Lancer/Hoplite hybrid and on siege I can rack up a good amount of kills if I do well. I use a double sided lance and a crappy plain round shield and of course light armor.
If a crappy player like me can top Eu2 with no if, only 5 ps and crappy equipment (except the double sided lance, it's a great weapon for hoplites) against all those str and heavy armor noobs these days...yes, then I would say Hoplite is indeed viable. And personally I don't understand why there are so few of them...