Why do picks do so much damage?

[dodnet]

i think it's weird that the pick does more damage than an english bill, especially considering that the bill is a 2d weapon

They make equal or more damage than almost all of the polearms, which is kinda... well... strange as you should have much more force with a spear than such a small tool.

[Old_Sir_Agor]

pick size is 64 and polearms 150+, see difference?  the thing i hate most in steel pick is - some strange misses because of size and ping, when you see how pick just comes thru enemy and made 0 dmg, this piss me off sometimes.

[Jarlek]

Buff the 1h stab to make it more balanced.

[Konrax]

I'm not really sure about the whole 1h situation to be honest after this thread, I made the post just to ask what people thought about the pick, but now people are talking about buffing stabs.

To be honest since the spin nerf I think 1h got hit the worst, it is bloody tough to land overhead now especially. I find that I don't even do overhead swings that often just because its too damn hard to land with any real consistency.

The 1h stab animation also isn't really the greatest, and the leftswing is fast yes, but to land a headshot you need to raise it up a bit which makes chambering non existent.

Not too sure how I feel about 1h anymore.

[San]

I'm not really sure about the whole 1h situation to be honest after this thread, I made the post just to ask what people thought about the pick, but now people are talking about buffing stabs.

You included comparisons to other 1h weapons in your post. Why they are "damn effective compared to all other weapons," then put in comparisons to the blunt weapons and the cut+stabweapons.

Basically, the knockdown helps make up for the slight differences in damage/speed. Blunt pretty much = pierce, but the blunt weapons have slightly worse stats in general. Even so, many of the blunt weapons are still pretty fast, and they're heavy so they don't get stunned. In comparison to the blunt/pierce weapons, the other 1hs are still a bit weak, so a little more discussion about what to change for them was included.


Right now, steel pick is still favorable compared to the other 1hs even against cloth. The high tier cut 1hs should have more favorable base damage to be more effective than the pick against low armor.

I would not mind a buff on many of the cut weapons, +2 cut and +1/+2 pierce on the stab depending on the weapon. I feel that high tier fully loomed 1h should reach non-loomed longsword or katana levels. The blunt weapons should be made more similar to their pierce counterparts, too, although they are some of the best knockdown weapons.


Overhead takes a lot more practice nowadays, and isn't very reliable in a 1v1 against an agi build.

[Turboflex]

I don't think picks are that OP. The super short range is tough to use on picks. The only guy on NA who really owns with it is San, and his footwork & feinting  is so good he'd own with any weapon anyways. They do shine in a situation that's jam packed though, like a strategus siege with a heavy fight on the walls, but a lot of short weapons do. In siege server when things get really compressed like that, I actually switch from my 73 range axe to my 55 range heavy throwing axe, even right swings don't glance much at that range.

[Mlekce]

Konrax i think you should play first with pick and 1h blunt weapons before you post topics like this.
I would realy like to see you with pick figthing 2h,pole users,1h with long wepons. 60-70 range is so short that anyone can outspam you,any average 2h can kick you and kill you any time. your problem is bad footwork and getting too close to enemy instead keeping him on distance.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

60-70 range is so short that anyone can outspam you,any average 2h can kick you and kill you any time.

Bad footwork let's 'em kick you...

[San]

Konrax i think you should play first with pick and 1h blunt weapons before you post topics like this.
I would realy like to see you with pick figthing 2h,pole users,1h with long wepons. 60-70 range is so short that anyone can outspam you,any average 2h can kick you and kill you any time. your problem is bad footwork and getting too close to enemy instead keeping him on distance.

He uses the Iberian mace pretty dang well.. I don't think he's really complaining too much except for the overhead part, which is pretty reasonable.

Pick's weaknesses are that you can strafe to the left against them and render them pretty ineffective as well as the heavy reliance on the slow right swing. It should have a few more, which I believe is more of a weakness against light armor than cut counterparts as I stated earlier in the topic. Nerfing the stats would just make everyone move to the warhammer or iberian mace anyways.

[Phew]

Steel pick is very difficult to use unless you have like 8 Athletics. I did a gen with it and 6 Ath, and spent most of my time whiffing and/or getting kicked.

Blunt is also slightly better than Pierce on medium armor; you can verify this on the Damage Calculator http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm. For instance, 33pierce (+3 Military Pick) does the same damage to 50 armor as 31 blunt (warhammer or +3 Military hammer). A +3 Warhammer actually outdamages a +3 Steel Pick on 50 armor also.

With only 6 athletics, I much prefer my +3 Military Hammer to a steel pick. Reach feels almost like a sword, but it hits like a 2h sword on medium+ armor. And knockdown is worth a couple free kills every map. 94 speed is still pretty fast in the scheme of things, I just don't risk slow right swings against spammitars etc.

EDIT: Oh, and steel pick does about the same damage to medium armor as a Danish Greatsword, which has 2-3 times the reach (depending on attack direction). A retarded llama can pick up a Danish and stay near the top of the scoreboard, but it takes a pretty skilled player to be effective with the steel pick.

[Konrax]

He uses the Iberian mace pretty dang well.. I don't think he's really complaining too much except for the overhead part, which is pretty reasonable.

Pick's weaknesses are that you can strafe to the left against them and render them pretty ineffective as well as the heavy reliance on the slow right swing. It should have a few more, which I believe is more of a weakness against light armor than cut counterparts as I stated earlier in the topic. Nerfing the stats would just make everyone move to the warhammer or iberian mace anyways.

I also did about 4 gens with a mighty warhammer, so I am not a nub to short 1h weapons. =)

[EyeBeat]

I don't like to use the warhammer because I do the stab by accident

If they took the thrust off the warhammer I would have never traded for the elite scimi.

[Spa_geh_tea]

Doesn't pierce have an x3 damage multiplier for head hits? Or is that a rumour.

Might be the reason for the difference.

[rustyspoon]

Doesn't pierce have an x3 damage multiplier for head hits? Or is that a rumour.

Might be the reason for the difference.

It's a rumor.

[Gurnisson]

It's a rumor.

I thought the x3 was for pierce ranged weapons, but I might've been mistaken. As for melee weapons, there's definitely not a x3 multiplicator for headhits.