Shields overhaul

[Konrax]

Having shield diversity is all well and good, but Lactose brings up a far more important point then meager shield stats:

holding a shield up makes you slower then someone who is swinging and backpeddaling.

If you find a logic, please call me

I've played a shielder for 15 generations now straight, and this has always been a constant annoyance.

[Phew]

Shield Skill should increase your movement speed while blocking.
It should also mitigate bolt penetration and crushthrough.

I'd trade some of the shield durability gains from shield skill for the above in a heartbeat.

[rustyspoon]

holding a shield up makes you slower then someone who is swinging and backpeddaling.

If you find a logic, please call me

Having shield diversity is all well and good, but Lactose brings up a far more important point then meager shield stats:

I've played a shielder for 15 generations now straight, and this has always been a constant annoyance.

Honestly I've never run into this problem. Probably because I have 7 athletics. Now since I don't wear armor any more, I can backpeddle while blocking and move faster than a 2h running forward. It's pretty funny.

[oprah_winfrey]

Shield Skill should increase your movement speed while blocking.
It should also mitigate bolt penetration and crushthrough.

I'd trade some of the shield durability gains from shield skill for the above in a heartbeat.

AFAIK shield skill does mitiagte bolt penetration and crushthrough. But you are going to be playing a pretty gimped build if you want to soak up a point blank mw arb with mw steel bolts or a mighty great maul from a 36-39/3 build.

Honestly I've never run into this problem. Probably because I have 7 athletics. Now since I don't wear armor any more, I can backpeddle while blocking and move faster than a 2h running forward. It's pretty funny.

This is one of the reasons I wouldn't go below 6 ath as a shielder.

[Phew]

AFAIK shield skill does mitiagte bolt penetration and crushthrough.

Crushthrough is currently only a function of weight ratio (between crushing weapon and blocking weapon/shield) and strength-presumably of the crusher and not the crushee.

Bolt penetration is only a function of the bolt damage (modified by range/speed bonus/etc) and shield armor.

The Game Mechanic Megathread covers all this: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.0.html

[oprah_winfrey]

Crushthrough is currently only a function of weight ratio (between crushing weapon and blocking weapon/shield) and strength.

Bolt penetration is only a function of the bolt damage (modified by range/speed bonus/etc) and shield armor.

The Game Mechanic Megathread covers all this: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.0.html

For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.

Doesn't shield skill increase your resistance?

[Phew]

Doesn't shield skill increase your resistance?

Paul posted the equation and specifically labeled "shield armor" as the only shield attribute in the equation. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,19324.msg275435.html#msg275435

[Turboflex]

Having shield diversity is all well and good, but Lactose brings up a far more important point then meager shield stats:

I've played a shielder for 15 generations now straight, and this has always been a constant annoyance.

This is why I recommend shielders put some points into throwing. As much as Egan likes to mock my clan's builds, with throwing 1) we can't be kited, 2) and we can rape horses,  normally 2 things which are the bane of shielders. When someone tries that S key bs on me, I step back to put 15-20 feet between us, take out my axes and start popping at him. At this point he rushes up to me and stays there, no more kiting.

[Mlekce]

I've also played 6 consecutive shielder gens, and I've used Brown Lion, Brown Kite, HRS, and ECS all at +3, and an unloomed Huscarl. Bolt penetration is the reason I dropped the Brown Lion, as dedicated x-bowmen shoot through it like it isn't there. Using a +3 HRS now (19 armor), and +3 steel bolts from +3 Arbalests still penetrate my shield every now and then. It's clear as day, bolt sticking out of my chest right behind the raised shield. Dedicated arbalesters are really common on siege, which is all I play, so I get plenty of chances to test this out. Never seen a bolt penetrate the unloomed Huscarl (20 armor).

Shield speed is important if you like to "drop feint", i.e. drop your block to force your opponent to release their held attack, only to block again before it lands. If you don't use this tactic, then I suppose speed is less critical. But all the good greatsworders just hold their attacks against shielders now, so unless you have all day, "drop feinting" is the fastest way to get the fight over with.

If there was a fast, high armor, round, 2-slot shield (think ECS +50 HP), I would use it instead of a crossbow sidearm. Instead, 2-slot is mostly populated with slow shields (bucklers excepted). The heavy kite-type shields have good stats, but poor horizontal coverage in melee. I like how round shields allow you to block two people on either side of you simultaneously, which kite shields can't do.

bolts and arrows pass trrough your shield because your shiled is not wide enough. Arrows and other ranged projectiles were comming from sides.
That is why i only use round shields,i noticed that in first 5 minutes as i played as shielder.
In eu1 if i were using long and thin shields arrows comming from side where always hitting me.
There is no beeter shield then elite cav shield and that is why everyone is using it,and that is why everyone want to buy it.
Blocks arrows from sides,it is fast,ususaly it brakes in 5-6 hits (depending on weapon it can take 10 hits from 1h,5-6 2h and 2-3 of poleaxes) but i usualy die before it gets smashed.

[Leshma]

Only problem is that some people are roleplaying knights or vikings and that shield doesn't fit well.

[Mlekce]

There is den bitre dudes who use husakarls shield and they do fine. King glype and sultan eren are best example of hoplite players.
Board shield is nice for cover,there was one guy petar who used it in duel server and he was annoying as fuck. To bad it doesn't realy fit into any ropleplay
and it is ugly,but exept of look it is pretty fine.
steel and plated covered shields are nice for dtv game mode,i will use it there when i get 6 shield skill.
heavy round shield is not common,but it is still good shield,and ppl use it.
knightly heather shield can block arrows from sides,it is so knightly shield. Fits perfectly.
Brown Lion Heater Shield is also nice and fits knightly theme,Green Crescent Heater Shield is also nice shield i saw few horsmen use it.
Steel Buckler were used by Mala and cora,and it is used moustly on rageball or siedge.

So there is other good shields as you can see,and they can fit a lot of themes,it just depends on your playstyle and what you like to have.
I love speed so i waill always pick elite cav shield because it have 103 speed,and it is light.

[Mlekce]

Shield Skill should increase your movement speed while blocking.
It should also mitigate bolt penetration and crushthrough.

I'd trade some of the shield durability gains from shield skill for the above in a heartbeat.

now this is what i like to hear. 

[rustyspoon]

Doesn't shield skill increase your resistance?

Resistance only lowers the amount of damage the shield takes.

So, let's say you have 5 shield skill. You have 40% resistance. If 50 damage goes to your shield after it makes it past the armor, your shield will only take 30 points of damage.

[Turboflex]

heavy round shield is not common,but it is still good shield,and ppl use it.

funny how it's pretty common on NA but not EU...

[Phew]

funny how it's pretty common on NA but not EU...

HRS is definitely the shield to have on NA. ECS is very nice too, but HRS is about 20% more durable with 50% more coverage, and the speed is still fast enough to "drop feint". ECS stops bolts better and can be used on horseback.

I'd love a shield with stats right between the ECS and the HRS. 35 diameter, 94 speed, 300 HP, 18 armor.