Archery?

[Stud_Muffin]

Yes, I know there were a ton of archery nerf posts but I'm not talking about a nerf, you can read that again if you have to so it gets lodged in your brain while you read this. Yes I'm one of those who think archery is massively OP, but not because of the damage, no because of the accuracy. OK so now I spurred your hate towards me and I'll probably get -1337 awesomebar because of the people who read that and forgot to read the rest.

I think that the nerf from the patch was compltely unneeded, the damage and speed nerfs where plain stupid. And since upkeep was implemented because of "historical accuracy" I think the damage and speed should be brought back to normalbecause of "historical accuracy", But (yes I know everyone hates buts) I think the accuracy needs a nerf, what brytenwalda did was perfect, their archery was hard to get to even if you were a hardcore archer but not impossible.

All I'm suggusting it bring the damage and speed back to how it was pre-patch and nerf the bow accuracy by only about 10.
Yes I'm prepared for the huge - on my awesomebar but hey, I'm EPIC!!!

Alrighty since I know that all the troll will see this board and say: BLARG TEHEHAHAHE I IZ GoNnA TrOlLoLoLoL THaT BOrd OVa THAR and archer will go: fuc that fucin' bitch of a fucing fucas mother, So I won't exept very many worth-while answers and I am prepared for this too.

[Tears of Destiny]

Hmm, have you played an archer, yes or no, and how far?

Interesting points though, but I will respond later in full after seeing how many people post amusing over-the-top responses.

[Stud_Muffin]

Hmm, have you played an archer, yes or no, and how far?

Interesting points though, but I will respond later in full after seeing how many people post amusing over-the-top responses.

I played an archer to level 21 but got tired of it's massive easy and OPness.

[Tears of Destiny]

I played an archer to level 21 but got tired of it's massive easy and OPness.

Right, then I shall take you seriously, and commend you for actually playing a class/mechanic before complaining about it.

[Hirlok]

Accuracy? Have you mixed up archery and xbows or throwers???

Maybe my view is a bit distorted since I have to deal with high ping (>200)  which makes it even harder, but there is nothing like "accuracy" in current archery, unless you have triple-heirloomed your bow and have around 160 WPF. (my last build was reasonably accurate at level 29/30 with a bit over 160 WPF and masterwork warbow)

right now I have a moderate strength build, hits hard (so I "just" need 2-3 arrows for armored targets...), but any hit beyond 30 meters is a lucky shot... (and when I say this, it means something -  while there are much better archers out there, I am not that bad, and usually know how to hit moving targets, one-shoot a lot of ponies, etc... )

The "useless archers" (to quote the usual melee smartass with a lack of tactical thinking...) are def underpowered right now compared to "realistic" effects (longbows could one-hit plate at 100 yards...), and that's ok - otherwise the melee-pussies in their dreamworld of one-hit victims would whine even more.

Only thing needed is a speed bump (arrow speed, not shooting speed). That is in the best interest of all, incl. melee, since it reduces the likelyhood of teamshots. Right now the arrows crawl through the air, and you simply can't predict who will run into it during the 5 seconds that it needs to reach its target...

[Patricia]

I have a level 22 archer, only have about 100 prof and my accuracy is fine, sure I can't snipe people in the face from across the map but I can still hit whoever I really want to hit except really really really rare occasions where my arrow just decide to shoot in a 90 angle from where I'm aiming and hit a teammate beside me.

[Stud_Muffin]

The "useless archers" (to quote the usual melee smartass with a lack of tactical thinking...) are def underpowered right now compared to "realistic" effects (longbows could one-hit plate at 100 yards...), and that's ok - otherwise the melee-pussies in their dreamworld of one-hit victims would whine even more.

I'm not sure what you said there but I think you ment that in RL longbow men could hit people just fine, so I'll answer as if you said that. Now if you read and interpreted my little essay how I ment it to be interpreted you would know that I'm fine accurate archers, if they have to work for it, as longbowmen did. And the time period this was set in is a bit before uber-accurate welsh longbow men.

Only thing needed is a speed bump (arrow speed, not shooting speed). That is in the best interest of all, incl. melee, since it reduces the likelyhood of teamshots. Right now the arrows crawl through the air, and you simply can't predict who will run into it during the 5 seconds that it needs to reach its target...

I'm talking about balancing archery, not giving it a huge buff. Let everyone else who reads this that if you wish to make a suggustion on what should be done about archery please give a suggustion on how BALANCE it, not giveing it a huge buff or a huge nerf. Now if you want the rest of my answer you'll have to tell me if you played a melee class and have you got shot at by four archers, and how many hit you.

[Tears of Destiny]

Now if you want the rest of my answer you'll have to tell me if you played a melee class and have you got shot at by four archers, and how many hit you.

Zero if at long range, all four if at short. Assuming an aware target. My dedicated polearm/2Her has yet to be hit by an archer he was aware of at range.

[Hirlok]

I'm not sure what you said there

More simple:
archery in the game
a) is less accurate than real archery
b) causes less damage

if they have to work for it, as longbowmen did.

"working for it" = training/experience is simulated by WPF in the game. Archery is the only class which needs an insane amount of WPF to become really useful, opposite e.g. to xbows or throwers. So we have to "work for it", by investing all our WPF into archery.

Now if you want the rest of my answer you'll have to tell me if you played a melee class and have you got shot at by four archers, and how many hit you.

Look into my sig - I have a melee char. And of course archers are annoying from that point of view - even if most just wound you a bit because they have PD6 or less... but that's life, and that is what archers/ranged were invented for: annoying, reducing, wounding, delaying helpless melees that are on their way towards the enemy.

You say you do not want a huge nerf but just a bit of balancing, but by suggesting to take off 10 from bow accuracy  you DO promote a huge nerf  and you can just remove archers from the game - this makes it total BS. What I said: it is balanced. More than that, and even the unrealistic low damage is ok for the sake of game fun.

The only minor improvement for everybody would be a correction to the arrow speed, which would just make things a bit more realistic and less painful for all.

[Stud_Muffin]

Look into my sig - I have a melee char. And of course archers are annoying from that point of view - even if most just wound you a bit because they have PD6 or less... but that's life, and that is what archers/ranged were invented for: annoying, reducing, wounding, delaying helpless melees that are on their way towards the enemy.

YES! Exactly! not for killing which is what they do half the map away which I don't mind exept, that it is half the map away, when I can't even see them, and remember, this game is set in the 1400s, I don't remember any super accurate archers then. And I didn't make the thread  to argue about my suggustion, argument over, or I might just lock this topic.

EDIT: Did you just say you don't want a damage buff? Thats a first.

[Tears of Destiny]

EDIT: Did you just say you don't want a damage buff? Thats a first.

Hmm, not many self-respecting archers want a damage buff. A speed buff would be better and perhaps a damage nerf to balance out the added damage inherent in increasing the speed of arrows. We already do enough damage, I really can not see wanting more. If you want more damage, swap out your Strongbow for a Warbow and up your PD by one or three points (Or become a shotgun against cav and tin cans, and go close in support with a PD10 build).

[Hirlok]

And I didn't make the thread  to argue about my suggustion, argument over, or I might just lock this topic.

Hey, this is a forum - you make a suggestion and make it in the open - expect other people to have a different opinion and comment your suggestions... ;-) Nothing personal, and if I may sound a bit harsh sometimes, please consider English is not my first language.

About the game being set in the 1400s: well, I am all FOR a realistic medieval combat simulation, but unfortunately M&B is not, and c-rpg even less. So unless all the Flamberge-weilding little anime-agi-girls, ninjas and thrower machineguns are gone, lets get not toooo deep into historical accuracy.

But on a sidenote: at that time archers usually were deployed in dozens or hundreds and rained down on an area rather than aiming at specific targets. But that is not the kind of battle and scale of battle we are playing here, and there are no battlelines and tactics either... Our battles and sieges are fought by small bands of specialists - and there were famous marksman and archers that could shoot your right ball off in the old times (not just Robin Hood...lol), just as there are now on our servers...

EDIT: Did you just say you don't want a damage buff? Thats a first.

As Tears already mentioned, this is quite common among serious archers. As a new player you indeed get frustrated: shooting a medium-armor target 6 times with your Nomad bow and the bastard still lives... lolwtfgtfo.... Then you either learn to take a weaker bow and high agi/proficiency and go for headshots and people in cloth, or you get the warbow and blast them.

I took me some time to find out how the weird game mechanics work, but having a triple-heirloomed warbow now and shooting bodkins with high PD (currently 10, next gen going dead-slow but heavy PD12 for the lulz...) I am quite content with the damage I deal.
Only thing in archery that needs a damage buff is the longbow - the poor thing is totally useless right now as we all know -  and not the kind of high-power, medium accuracy, very slow, LONG-distance weapon for specialists that it should be.

[MouthnHoof]

More simple:
archery in the game
a) is less accurate than real archery
b) causes less damage

It is not less accurate for shooting at the maximum rate, especially for the high load bows. It is less accurate given enough aiming time. At the same time targets (aka players) in the game do not move like real humans and cannot crouch, bend or cower behind cover/shield.

Bows cause less damage because... wait, how many hits does a real arrow does to a person? do headshots do x2 more hits in real life? is the *real* damage soak factor of the helmet against piercing weapons 0.3? hits have nothing to do with reality. This is an entirely game feature and no tweaking of damage values will make it any more real.

If you insist on realism, a head shot against a good metal helmet will likely do nothing more than a "ching!" sound as the arrow glance off the curved helmet. Arrows will not penetrate a helmet and the probability to hit the visor or directly the face is small. Yet in the game, every hit is a full damage headshot.

Bottom line,
When it comes to accuracy and damage, there is no realism, only game balance.

[SmaSol]

Increase damage (don't know what pre-patch was), increase arrow speed, take away the crosshair - job done 
This also applies to xbow and throwers.

(yes, I know, there is sticky tape and so on ...)

[Leesin]

I like it how it is, it feels like the most balanced it's ever been as a build itself, the only problem I see is the actual number of archers, but that isn't to do with the build itself it's to do with the players, just like xbows and throwing. We get ranged spam not because a class is OP, but because players want to use ranged weapons.

Plus accuracy nerf for archers would nerf HA even further and I would not have much fun on my HA alt anymore  .