Does Cav seem OP to you? Discuss.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Cav seems OP is what you said. Because of your lovely thread the dev completely make whistle become useless, now none of the horse will listen to whistle anymore, and all of them get slaughtered by horse haters.

OOOOOH so that's why its pointless to whistle now..... I wondered why

wow thanks for that -.- 

[Rhekimos]

Dam guys why you gotta downvote my post...
I didn't even state that cav are OP. I'm just offering discussions about why people think they are...

"Cav seems OP? How to fix this?"

You didn't explicitly say that cav is OP. Just that it's a problem. And the suggested solutions to the problem is buffing archery and pikes.

"They are argued to be the dominant class in this state of crpg."

You dance around the issue, using weasel language just like this.

"I've been seeing more and more complaints about cavalry buffness and "Cav OP" / "Cav Nerf" threads.
There are becoming increasingly larger amounts of cavalry in our servers. Sometmes around 10-15 per team on a full server."

Here you obviously describe the problem. What are you trying to say here, if not that cav is OP in comparison to the other classes?

It looks like a thinly veiled call to nerf cav, without even actually saying what's wrong with cav now. Drum up enough popular support and keep the issue alive and it'll look like a much bigger problem than it is. This is why I downvoted your post.

[San]

Negative speed bonus irks me when I'm riding. If I'm riding away from any sort of ranged, they would only do 5% damage to me and 10% damage to my horse (30% if throwing lance). I think people can abuse this in order to have more survivability for themselves.

Delayed spawns for cav would have the fewest direct nerfs and would allow the other team to get into proper formation so they can properly defend themselves. Often times, I get to the enemy team before they can even put up much of a defense for half their players. Delaying spawning by cav for 20, even 10 seconds would be highly beneficial without messing with their mechanics directly. Aren't all the cav players claiming that teamwork beats cav? Give the team a few extra seconds to get some teamwork going!

I disagree about it taking one pikeman or archer. I think it takes at least 2-3 focusing solely on you, and only if they're good(for archers).

I have an issue with directly buffing classes that are already good enough against infantry. It might screw up their balance against infantry, too. Removing the 0 armor on a horse's legs and making the head more vulnerable would decrease teamwound damage on horses significantly while buffing pikes/archers (and I suppose stabbing weapons in general) against horses. There is more of a risk/reward for infantry, aiming for a safe body shot or an unsafe stab to the head, and whether cav should turn into or away from an opponent when stabbing.

[Strider]

"Cav seems OP? How to fix this?"

You didn't explicitly say that cav is OP. Just that it's a problem. And the suggested solutions to the problem is buffing archery and pikes.

"They are argued to be the dominant class in this state of crpg."

You dance around the issue, using weasel language just like this.

"I've been seeing more and more complaints about cavalry buffness and "Cav OP" / "Cav Nerf" threads.
There are becoming increasingly larger amounts of cavalry in our servers. Sometmes around 10-15 per team on a full server."

Here you obviously describe the problem. What are you trying to say here, if not that cav is OP in comparison to the other classes?

It looks like a thinly veiled call to nerf cav, without even actually saying what's wrong with cav now. Drum up enough popular support and keep the issue alive and it'll look like a much bigger problem than it is. This is why I downvoted your post.

Because there are many people out there that view cavalry as a problem and whine about it.
If you don't think it's a problem. Heres a thread that gives you a place to discuss and persuade others to think your way.
I personally do not care whatsoever how they change cav for better or for worse because I play cav everyone once in a while.

chadz has explained that he wants to completely recreate cav differently.
Your precious cavalry are very likely ready to be nerfed to shreads, so maybe if devs see lots of negative feedback against nerfing cav then they'll take your opinions into account and ditch the nerf.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Oh so you get what you want in the end?

Your precious cavalry are very likely ready to be nerfed to shreads, so maybe if devs see lots of negative feedback against nerfing cav then they'll take your opinions into account and ditch the nerf.

sorry but since when did devs ever listen to not nerfing something?

Oh but thats right, you never said cav should be nerfed 

[AgentQ]

cav is OP again? i need to update the mod and roll out my masterwork heavy lance.

[dynamike]

cav is OP again? i need to update the mod and roll out my masterwork heavy lance.

You get back to playing, stranger! 

With the new installer there is no more need for manual updates, so no excuses  Would be good to see you on!

[AgentQ]

I hope the map rotations have more open maps. Btw, WOT is fun, i became a Wallet Warrior. 

[Rhekimos]

Because there are many people out there that view cavalry as a problem and whine about it.
If you don't think it's a problem. Heres a thread that gives you a place to discuss and persuade others to think your way.
I personally do not care whatsoever how they change cav for better or for worse because I play cav everyone once in a while.

chadz has explained that he wants to completely recreate cav differently.
Your precious cavalry are very likely ready to be nerfed to shreads, so maybe if devs see lots of negative feedback against nerfing cav then they'll take your opinions into account and ditch the nerf.

You don't see the problem? I and the other few cav players need to be shouting constantly to make our voices heard over the hordes of 2h players who were caught unaware every map and lanced.

Why should it be up to me to convince them that they should be killed every now and then? That's pure madness.

Here you come along with your dubious neutrality in relation to cav, starting more threads and strongly hinting that cav should be nerfed as a starting point for your discussion. You seeded the pool, and hoped no one would notice.

And if cav is nerfed, I'll adapt. I've adapted 24 gens worth of 2h, piking, shielding, archery, crossbowing and cav, through numerous nerfs.

But who cares about classes right? 2h rule.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

You don't see the problem? I and the other few cav players need to be shouting constantly to make our voices heard over the hordes of 2h players who were caught unaware every map and lanced.

Why should it be up to me to convince them that they should be killed every now and then? That's pure madness.

Here you come along with your dubious neutrality in relation to cav, starting more threads and strongly hinting that cav should be nerfed as a starting point for your discussion. You seeded the pool, and hoped no one would notice.

And if cav is nerfed, I'll adapt. I've adapted 24 gens worth of 2h, piking, shielding, archery, crossbowing and cav, through numerous nerfs.

But who cares about classes right? 2h rule.

I agree, I don't think that most of the people whining for cav nerfs realize that....the few people that are actually good cav adapt to the nerfs and carry on playing. GKs are proof alone, we just plow through every change that cav has undertaken and we still annoy the shit out of people.

but yeah like you said 2h rules. 

[RiPLeY_II]

I was on my 2h cav yesterday on EU_4 there was 3 cav on my team including me and about 3 on the other team and there was about under 20 people on the server, me and the other two cav saw a small group of inf running into the middle of the map (it was a pretty open map) we went to attack and you know what happened.......we dropped like flys, they had two spearmen NO not pikers spearmen one had an ashwood pike the other had a boar spear and us horsemen had our horses killed and as we fell to the ground just as we stood up we got raped by the inf that was with the two spearmen. Now this group was about 4-5 people large and took down 3 cav in under 15 seconds....thats pretty dam fast and you know why they did so well? because they WORKED TOGETHER and was paying ATTENTION  they wasn't trying to get kills nor be rambos they actually worked together and they wasn't even clan members they were all random people (although ___Bjorn___ was on their team and he tries to get teamwork going...)

That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard...... I'm being selfish because I want to play my favorite class? oh I'm sorry, next time I kill someone as cav and they bitch about it Ill leave and come on an alt, will that be better? and if I'm on say....my ranged character do I have to leave if someone bitches about me killing them on that to? Yeah thats really the way to balance the game 

have you even played cav? (bearing in mind the fairy horse also known as the "arabian" does not count as a real horse) the upkeep on my destrier is 1K+ thats on its own now add my armor, weapon boots, helmet, gloves, second weapon on top. Although I will admit they wont all break at once however if my horse breaks and my secondary weapon then my upkeep is 2k+ it doesn't sound like alot but having that once every few rounds with just those two breaking.....yeah it kinda adds up to alot of gold.

Also if its not fair to play cav all the time then what about the other classes? its ok for them to play inf and ranged all the time but its not ok for cav to play cav all the time.....yeah thats very fair and not siding with one class other another at all 

If the problem is the amount of cav on at once then yes it will and can be annoying, but you think its just annoying for the people on foot? WRONG other cav will be just as annoyed as someone who died on foot will be if their killed by another cav. I personally hate cav vs cav fights as its a 50-50% chance that you will win or die its annoying that if he times it just a second better then me then I'm fucked. Cav vs cav fights are to risky so I avoid them if I can as I want to survive the round.

One last point, if cav ruins everyones fun don't you think it wouldn't be in the game? plus don't you think ranged annoy 2hers??? Are they next on the list to have a "limit" put on them  :

To put it short, same as many other people opinion "teamwork is key".

You said 5 PEOPLE working together kill 3. What's the surprise???? you say they don't need a balance cause they're killed when clearly outnumbered in a server with 20 people where you don't need battle awareness, cause there's nearly no battle???????

Teamwork doesn't do shit, when you have to face 20 enemy cav players and the 60 other infantry they have against a group of 80 infantry man. That's the case and not what you expose. And believe me the 80 players would be HYPER-RAPED in an open field, no matter teamwork or awareness

The class is favored, put it like that:

Cav is simply a guy that has superior mobility (and thus defense because of that), superior attack, cause it kills in 1 hit, and when they loose their horse .... SURPRISE IS A FULL INFANTRY MAN. When their number is fair, it's ok, you can manage it, but when they are too much, they're unmanageble. That doesn't happen WITH ANY OTHER CLASS.

Think of it like that, there's not a single soldier that acts as a pure counter to cav, as you said, you need a group and teamwork ...... to put down 1 good cav... so what you're saying is that their "total battle value" is above 1.

[Rumblood]

Im happy with the way NA1 is right now. (Yeah, you better specify where you play when you know the servers arent running the same versions)

Im an archer.

1vs1 - At range, all me. When cavalry is close enough to engage, they have a slight advantage due to horse bump.

1vs1 + a Tree - Pretty evenly matched duel

I only currently have 2 issues.

One is that the lance hits you about a foot to the right of where the graphics show the thrust to be. I only dodge far enough out of the way while drawing my bow to avoid the lance, then turn and shoot them in the back. Ghost reach screws that over.

The second (and worst!) is that stupid "auto-stun the archer if you get within 5 feet of them." I've been 3 feet behind a building or a tree that the cavalry galloped past and gotten the "auto-stun" because I was behind there with my bow drawn waiting to shoot them in the back as they drove by. REDUCE THE AUTO-STUN AREA OF EFFECT. Hell, you can't even blame it on the wind of their passing. I'm behind a WALL!

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Teamwork doesn't do shit

I got to there and stopped reading, your unbelievably retarded if not then soo stupid that you pass as one. If you want to be rambo you do that, have fun but don't come to the forums QQing and bitching about how cav needs a nerf or to be "fixed" just because your blind, deaf and dumb kthnxbai.

[RiPLeY_II]

I got to there and stopped reading, your unbelievably retarded if not then soo stupid that you pass as one. If you want to be rambo you do that, have fun but don't come to the forums QQing and bitching about how cav needs a nerf or to be "fixed" just because your blind, deaf and dumb kthnxbai.

Man you have a short brain if you can't see that.

Vs. a team crowded of cavmen, teamwork doesn't do shit, if you don't believe this either you haven't played enough the mod or you learn nothing from what you do.

You can be a group of pikemen, or whatever, when a group of the same number of cavmen attack another group from different directions, they'll end up bumping people and raping them, no matter the counters.

Cav can also do teamwork, and when they do, a teamworking group of pikemen/infantry have nothing to do.

You're not very smart if you can't see that.

You what you say is what I say. Teamwork and counters are ok, when you're trying to defeat 1 cavmen, using a group of 3 infantry man. When numbers are equal, everything is fucked. So I propose to cap the number of cav. Is it that difficult to understand to you? EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN is the key, think of it.

[_Tak_]

You what you say is what I say. Teamwork and counters are ok, when you're trying to defeat 1 cavmen, using a group of 3 infantry man. When numbers are equal, everything is fucked. So I propose to cap the number of cav. Is it that difficult to understand to you? EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN is the key, think of it.

What about the mongols in history? All of them are Cav (Full of Horse archers + lancers + heavy cavalry), is that equal?