Does Cav seem OP to you? Discuss.

[Adamar]

Yeah, a class based ballancer would be better, so that cav would be busy killing each other.

[RiPLeY_II]

That's the gayest suggestion ever. Tons of butthurt melee foot kids have proposed the same with archers/HX/HA and cav as you just did and it's fail because you would basically make it impossible for players to play their classes just because uber race melee'ers wants to circle jerk eachother.

1st: you seem to be calling a proposal "gay" just because you don't like it. Look into your brain man, maybe showing your repressed in-thoughts? ... please, be a little more serious when trying to argument ... you have no arguments at all, while i argumented my opinion ...

Yes, it's neccesary not to let people choose and play at their will with AN OP CLASS, REMEMBER.

Just to put an example, in those 1st person shooters that you can take vehicles, you have to gain access to the vehicle first, and there are just a few of them on the fields, SO NOT EVERYONE USES THEM. If you could spawn with a helicopter or a tank, every player would do it, because on foot, you are meat. So they put a few and scattered through the map, so the player have to win access to them, and you have players on foot everytime in-game, on normal multiplayer game modes and maps.

So a horse is a huge advantage, and as a huge advantage, there should be just a few of them on the field. Another option is that no player spawn with a horse, and in each team there is a fixed amount of "free horses" that players can mount.

What is clear now, is that the mod allows you to play a favored-class with near to no sacrifice at all (excepting upkeep, which is not, by all terms, a huge sacrifice).

[Bryggan]

The only reason cav seems op is because infantry without Teamspeak can't communicate.  As a thrower/shielder I try protect the rear from menacing cav, and usually there are some archers and some pikemen there too.  This usually keeps the enemy cav far away until we accidentally get separated (It's hard focusing on enemy cav, friendly cav, fellow anti-cav, and the main body of attacking infantry all at once) and some lancer sneaks through and takes out a couple guys who thought their backs were safe.  I hate watching those poor bastards get skewered as I'm looking for the 'Q' button, then the... um... next button, then that third one which I never get to because by then I'm skewered for not paying attention.  This doesn't really matter, because half the attacking infantry use 'Cavalry from behind!" as their battle cry (the rest are divided into "I'm manning the catapults!" and "I'm defending the stairs!").

Still, i do love it when the situation coincidently lends itself to good teamwork, and I run back and forth helping the advancing infantry in the front and keeping the cav at bay in the rear, and then there is that glorious moment when the enemy cav gets impatient, or desparate, and foolishly tries to break through.  I can't imagine any moment in cRPG that is more exhilirating than standing your ground then head-shotting a cav charging right at you, or watching some enemy cav rearing up from a pike thrust, then quickly getting swarmed.  After that, there is that immensely satisfying time of hunting down the few remaining enemy; especially, as a thrower, of tossing jarids into the back of a kiting archer.

So cav is fine in my eyes, I just wish there was a better command system.  I myself can't think of anything, except perma-banning anyone who abuses the voice commands (except for that sexy female 'hello' voice, I never get tired of that).

Oh, and buff me.  No one else though.

[LordBerenger]

1st: you seem to be calling a proposal "gay" just because you don't like it. Look into your brain man, maybe showing your repressed in-thoughts? ... please, be a little more serious when trying to argument ... you have no arguments at all, while i argumented my opinion ...

Yes, it's neccesary not to let people choose and play at their will with AN OP CLASS, REMEMBER.

Just to put an example, in those 1st person shooters that you can take vehicles, you have to gain access to the vehicle first, and there are just a few of them on the fields, SO NOT EVERYONE USES THEM. If you could spawn with a helicopter or a tank, every player would do it, because on foot, you are meat. So they put a few and scattered through the map, so the player have to win access to them, and you have players on foot everytime in-game, on normal multiplayer game modes and maps.

So a horse is a huge advantage, and as a huge advantage, there should be just a few of them on the field. Another option is that no player spawn with a horse, and in each team there is a fixed amount of "free horses" that players can mount.

What is clear now, is that the mod allows you to play a favored-class with near to no sacrifice at all (excepting upkeep, which is not, by all terms, a huge sacrifice).

Since i'm not in the mood or have time to argue with a melee elitist i will just say one thing.

FUCK OFF.


Thank you.

[RiPLeY_II]

Since i'm not in the mood or have time to argue with a melee elitist i will just say one thing.

FUCK OFF.


Thank you.

Pretty Clear.

You just pictured yourself.

[Adamar]

Ripley, horses where historicaly op, but the rider also had a lot of skill to do what he did, and it doesn't take a lot of skill to collect kills as cav in crpg.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Plese, lets be analystic.

Cav is OP, everyone knows it, and it MUST BE OP. That's why men started riding horses on combat ... it they weren't OP, they would have left horses for the countrywork. They need a few tweaks, like cavmen getting damage when horse die and they fell 10 meters long, or the excessive, outstanding maneuvrability of the sarranid horses, or getting damage from stomping into a wall (these aren't nerfs, as they have no effect on a "proper" cavman, that doesn't go suiciding into walls or great groups to fall soon) ... but just minor tweaks, the way they work is the way they should.

So what's the problem? The problem is THE NUMBER OF CAV PLAYERS ON A SERVER AT A TIME, when a team have like 25 cavmen at a time, teamwork is useless as you'll be getting raped by horses on every direction, constantly bumped, and pikes are not a fix for that, every veteran player knows it as we've suffered/succeded on each side. Also, the awful autobalance system, that doesn't take into account your "class" when balancing, doesn't help at all.

So, the only thing that's needed to be fixed is that. Just cap the number of cav players  allowed to spawn to 10-15% of total players on a team and problem solved (with a horse in their equipment, they could spawn without it) ...

PD: +1 if you like the idea.

Better yet! lets cap the amount of 2h spammers to umm say 2% I think I'm being generous there 


On a serious note if you want to cap one class then the amount of people playing ranged, thrower, piker, 2her 1h+shield will go up and then you and others will call for a % cap on another class and so on and so forth, telling people what class they can and can't play is not the way forward. If I wanted to be told what class to play Id ask someone, I don't want to be told I can't play archer, cav thrower or any class just because people are butthurt and fail to work as a team. there are plenty of ways to take down cav and if you can't think of any......well then boohoo for you lifes a bitch get over it.

[BD_SUPERBEAST]

 Rise (a bit) cav upkeep(which should work as another money sink given that devs look for money sinks too), thats another option which can be combined with some "tweaking gameplay" options also. I have 2 cav alts(which i have played for some generations) and i always managed to do money with my lancer and lose a bit or break even with the 2h heavy cav. This should be combined with some special cav balancing(like avoiding the common situation when there are 25 cavs on one team and 4 on the other on full server).

Biggest cause of the amount of cav lately comes probably from the ability to pass money between alts,so anyone with a inf alt can easily make money with it and pass it to his cav alt and still break even or gain money anyway.... Which leads to everyone having a cav alt and using it on all cav maps(big amount of cav maps also imo),which leads to pissing of anyone not mounted.

Before all idiotic comments about melee elitism, i like cav,i like to play cav as much as i like to play the majority of other classes. Only class i didnt play is xbow(find it very boring from my point of view,and not in the mood to try it).

Its curious when the people that takes every ocassion to cry about melee elitism are mostly the same people who only play cav or any other class for hundreds of generations...and still many of them are crap when they fall of the horse. Hilarious.

So my opinion: Dont nerf cav,but do something to equilibrate it on the teams(this would be good for any class if u ask me),and rise upkeep a bit cause i dont care what anyone says, its not hard to make money with it or nearly break even except u using high tier shields and/or high tier armor+high tier 2ndary all the time.

Oh i almost forgot it, Arabian horse its still able to do some silly moves. Combined with 8 or more riding it surpasses the edge of opness.

[Rhekimos]

There's a lot of whining about cav, so let's make another thread whining about cav to celebrate this.

Hooray.

[BD_SUPERBEAST]

Really constructive,i like ur arguments.

Twice hooray.

[Rhekimos]

Really constructive,i like ur arguments.

Twice hooray.

I don't mind yours. If you looked hard, you might notice that a lot of whining doesn't mean that there's something wrong. Just players who ran into situations they found annoying and unfair. No amount of nerfing or raising upkeep costs will end that.

A morphine drip might, though.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

Don't boost horse upkeep. You asshole, I want to actually ride the fucking thing, which is hard enough now. An infantryman can use very nice equipment without suffering retarded money rape. Cav should be able to do the same, too.

Destrier, Courser, and Arabian are the "decent" horses. Things other than those suck, and things more than those are OP. Well, they would be if their legs weren't gigantic self-destruct buttons.

None of this will matter when I sell a loompoint this gen, finally. A few more weeks of play, then money will never matter again. Which makes sense. I mean, why shouldn't I be able to all but ignore a game "balancing" mechanic?
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And, as I've said before, cavalry's number one counters in cRPG are teamwork and awareness. An aware player can avoid a charging horse, or attack it. A friendly pikeman that is made aware of the presence of a flanking enemy cavalryman via effective communication is able to fuck up horses.

Awareness is mostly up to the player, as he/she is responsible for listening/looking for cav. Though, the way horse-hooves sound in game can be a little off. Really, I think it's ok in cRPG.

As Bryggan points out, however, the lack of in-game VOIP means that infantry can't communicate fast enough. This is the biggest issue with regards too communication, really. Either have a cRPG public TS (fuck Ventrilo) that anyone can join, or somehow put VOIP into the actual game using powerful development magics.

Or nerf cav into oblivion. Fuck it, if you can't fix it right, you just gotta fix it dead.

[RiPLeY_II]

Better yet! lets cap the amount of 2h spammers to umm say 2% I think I'm being generous there 


On a serious note if you want to cap one class then the amount of people playing ranged, thrower, piker, 2her 1h+shield will go up and then you and others will call for a % cap on another class and so on and so forth, telling people what class they can and can't play is not the way forward. If I wanted to be told what class to play Id ask someone, I don't want to be told I can't play archer, cav thrower or any class just because people are butthurt and fail to work as a team. there are plenty of ways to take down cav and if you can't think of any......well then boohoo for you lifes a bitch get over it.

I'm not saying you can't play cav, I'm just suggesting a regulation on the number of simultaneous cav playing, due to its superior performance compared to other classes.

All of you that say "I want to play the class, don't cap the number" are just thinking on yourselves and not in general. An op class must always be regulated in order to get balance. It's not that strange or new, it's used in almost every succesful gaming formula. Some players fun shouldn't be put over all the others ...

It's fair that you play cav, but not all the time and with nearly no cost. That way, every "maxer" will end up playing cav, which ruins every other player fun ... remember, cav is not the problem, the problem is the overcrowd of cavmen.

[bruce]

Horse upkeep is fine / high anyway.

I mean, yes, you can naturally "cheat" the upkeep system by playing rageball / inf alt / whatever. The idea of balancing things with upkeep is just doomed to fail. Players should not find it impossible to normally play on a decent horse (esp. Rounceys and such) with semidecent gear; if someone wants to play cavalry he should be able to use a passable horse and passable gear without having to resort to boring gold farming. Likewise, "more town maps" isn't really the solution.

A better approach is making more open maps, and then balancing things so ranged infantry / melee infantry / cavalry is all playable and balanced on open maps. Firstly, it is easier to balance that way, because you don't have to consider the plethora of situations, but instead balance it on one. Secondly, it leads to more fun to play maps, because we can actually play randomized maps instead of the same old (and often crap) maps all the time. Thirdly, that way everyone has "fun" all the time, instead of some classes just suiciding / not playing their class / not bothering to spawn through certain maps.

Autobalancer should try to balance the numbers by class, somehow; that would prevent the obvious problems when one team has all the ranged / all the cavalry which is a problem on more open maps which demand more teamplay between classes as opposed to random charge zerg circle running crap of town "circle" maps.

As for horses, there are ways to "fix" imbalances, depending on what role you want cavalry to play. I would really like to see sensible, open battlefields as the norm and then cavalry balanced based on those.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

I'm not saying you can't play cav, I'm just suggesting a regulation on the number of simultaneous cav playing, due to its superior performance compared to other classes.

All of you that say "I want to play the class, don't cap the number" are just thinking on yourselves and not in general. An op class must always be regulated in order to get balance. It's not that strange or new, it's used in almost every succesful gaming formula. Some players fun shouldn't be put over all the others ...

It's fair that you play cav, but not all the time and with nearly no cost. That way, every "maxer" will end up playing cav, which ruins every other player fun ... remember, cav is not the problem, the problem is the overcrowd of cavmen.

I was on my 2h cav yesterday on EU_4 there was 3 cav on my team including me and about 3 on the other team and there was about under 20 people on the server, me and the other two cav saw a small group of inf running into the middle of the map (it was a pretty open map) we went to attack and you know what happened.......we dropped like flys, they had two spearmen NO not pikers spearmen one had an ashwood pike the other had a boar spear and us horsemen had our horses killed and as we fell to the ground just as we stood up we got raped by the inf that was with the two spearmen. Now this group was about 4-5 people large and took down 3 cav in under 15 seconds....thats pretty dam fast and you know why they did so well? because they WORKED TOGETHER and was paying ATTENTION  they wasn't trying to get kills nor be rambos they actually worked together and they wasn't even clan members they were all random people (although ___Bjorn___ was on their team and he tries to get teamwork going...)

"I want to play the class, don't cap the number" are just thinking on yourselves and not in general.

That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard...... I'm being selfish because I want to play my favorite class? oh I'm sorry, next time I kill someone as cav and they bitch about it Ill leave and come on an alt, will that be better? and if I'm on say....my ranged character do I have to leave if someone bitches about me killing them on that to? Yeah thats really the way to balance the game 

It's fair that you play cav, but not all the time and with nearly no cost. That way, every "maxer" will end up playing cav, which ruins every other player fun ... remember, cav is not the problem, the problem is the overcrowd of cavmen.

have you even played cav? (bearing in mind the fairy horse also known as the "arabian" does not count as a real horse) the upkeep on my destrier is 1K+ thats on its own now add my armor, weapon boots, helmet, gloves, second weapon on top. Although I will admit they wont all break at once however if my horse breaks and my secondary weapon then my upkeep is 2k+ it doesn't sound like alot but having that once every few rounds with just those two breaking.....yeah it kinda adds up to alot of gold.

Also if its not fair to play cav all the time then what about the other classes? its ok for them to play inf and ranged all the time but its not ok for cav to play cav all the time.....yeah thats very fair and not siding with one class other another at all 

If the problem is the amount of cav on at once then yes it will and can be annoying, but you think its just annoying for the people on foot? WRONG other cav will be just as annoyed as someone who died on foot will be if their killed by another cav. I personally hate cav vs cav fights as its a 50-50% chance that you will win or die its annoying that if he times it just a second better then me then I'm fucked. Cav vs cav fights are to risky so I avoid them if I can as I want to survive the round.

One last point, if cav ruins everyones fun don't you think it wouldn't be in the game? plus don't you think ranged annoy 2hers??? Are they next on the list to have a "limit" put on them  :