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Offline Zerran

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A Guide on using the Pike
« on: July 12, 2012, 06:25:47 pm »
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A (not so) brief guide on how to use a Pike.


Basics of the Basics:

Most of your hits come from a basic wiggle, essentially just aim slightly to the side or above, release your thrust, turn into the enemy. Preferably doing this while moving forward to maximize damage.
Alternatively, if your opponent is defenseless, a jump thrust can give you a nice damage boost. (This is risky though if your opponent has a chance to block you, since the pike thrust stun lasts around a full second, and therefore can give them a free hit.)

Work on recognizing armor types, and look for where your opponent is weakest. A lot of people who wear really heavy body armor go without a helmet or with shitty leg armor. Aim for the weak points and you'll do a lot more damage. The pike has an easier time picking its target hitbox than any other weapon. - as a side note on this, if you have an ally directly through the enemy, aim for the enemy's feet regardless of what armor they have, because if your ally kills them before you strike, you're thrusting an unbalanced weapon right into your ally. If you aim for the enemy's feet and they die, you'll just hit the ground harmlessly.

Jumping is one of your best tactics, as long as you do it properly. A quick jump, timed properly, can get you out of harms way, behind an ally, or give you a nice damage boost, but timed poorly it can get you a very quick and very humiliating death. Don't jump backwards to try and avoid getting hit from a chambered attack, only do it to get out of range of possible future attacks. There really isn't any way to explain when to do what kind of jump, save for the jumping spin stabs, as it's very situation dependent, you just need to practice and die humiliatingly a few times until you figure it out.

Beware of trying to hit a blocking opponent if they can reach you quickly, as if you thrust and it is either blocked, or hits something it can't damage (such as a building or the ground) you'll be momentarily stunned, this effect is called "Thrust Stun". This can potentially give your enemies a free chance to swing at you, so be mindful of this.

The Pike's hitbox is a bit funny. It doesn't start until about 3-4 feet away from you, which can allow you to stab THROUGH teammates as well as small structures, such as walls. Please note, however, that it is against the server rules to poke through solid objects by simply walking up to them, and thrusting directly through them. "Curving" around them is legal, however. This is done by aiming away from them, begin your thrust, and then aim through them, effectively hitting through them. Poking through teammates is also legal, just watch out that you don't accidentally hit them.

Choosing a Build:

After a fair bit of testing, I prefer the following build:

21/18

7 IF
7 PS
6 ATH
3 WM

98 Polearm WPF
99 2H WPF

2H can be exchanged for w/e you're using as a sidearm.

That said, I've seen people doing very well with the Pike with quite an array of builds, so try things out and just see what feels right to you.


Basic Support Techniques:

A quick foreword: If you get someone rushing up and trying to kill you when you have an ally nearby, go completely on the defensive, do NOT try to retaliate until you are VERY familiar with the Pike. You're much more likely to hit your ally than your enemy.

1. Large Group Fighting: This is the easiest part of playing a pikeman. Essentially, just sit behind the group, poking around teammates. The pike hitbox doesn't start until about 3-4 feet away from you, so as long as you hug people, you can easily stab around them (Just make sure you aren't getting in their way) If someone charges through the group to hit you, hold your ground and block, or try to position the attacker so your group can easily kill him, DO NOT try to retaliate. If this person has a crushthrough weapon, just pray someone kills them before they reach you or you're fucked.

If you see a clusterfuck, the best thing you can do is just stand right outside of it, keeping an attack chambered, and try to predict where the enemy is going to move. Position yourself in such a way that as soon as they break free of the crowd of your allies, you have a free shot at them. Not really any way to explain how to do this, it just takes practice. DO NOT rush into the crowd and try to "help" you'll just get in the way.

2. Small Group fighting: This is personally my favorite way to play, grouping up with 1-3 allies and going on a killing spree. The trick here is to position yourself so that the enemy is forced to choose to only block one of you, while the other kills them. Generally I find the best way to do this is to position yourself approximately 15-60 degrees from your ally, as compared to the enemy. This lets your ally very quickly rush in to help if the enemy decides to rush you, and lets you stab them unhindered by your ally's movements.

Alternatively, if you're very confidant in your ability to block, as well as your ally's ability to fight, you can try and position yourself behind the enemy. If they switch targets to you, try and maneuver towards your ally so they can hit them.

Some notes from Tanken on how to play with a group, as well as how the teammates of a pikeman can help them:
One thing I might add to your guide Caita is an effective strategy of teams including a Pikeman amongst it. One thing that should be done is for your team to anchor onto the Pikeman. If you are a shielder, another polearm user, or a 2handed user, you need to be 100% aware of where your pikeman is at ALL TIMES. They are going to deal a lot of damage in your group, but without your support (as others have mentioned) they will fall quickly if swarmed. Also, work as a group to get packs of people separated. Pick a target, and try and coerce them away from their group of nearest allies. This can easiest be the most effective strategy in dealing with groups of 4-5 people who may otherwise outmatch you. Find them, engage them, if you can't kill them, start strafing to the side of the group and bait them so they follow--THEN get your Shielder or whatever allies you have (assuming they're competent) to engage that individual immediately and take their attention away from their current target.

As Caita mentioned, switching targets in group fights is easily one of the best strategies to do. I always like to picture myself weaving in and out of my teammate's fights to sink in shots and keep moving. This gives me two things; A) The ability to quickly eliminate a target that my teammates are in the process of fighting and they MAY or MAY NOT even know a Pikeman is in the midst, B) It keeps you constantly surveying. Even when fighting infantry you need to keep your eyes up and keep your screen moving. C) HELP. Kill the infantry that is causing the most harm to your teammate. Nothing is more disappointing than a Pikeman, meant for support, engaging an enemy too long and NOT helping kill an otherwise easy infantry kill for the Pikeman. and D) NEVER MISS A HORSE. That horse you missed trampling one of your teammates because you got Tunnel Vision? Guess what, that horse was Huey Newton, or Badplayer, or Rohypnol planting a bolt in someone's dome...You just fucked it up and now you'll be lucky to have another chance to catch them.

One last thing for group fighting, PAIR UP WITH YOUR FAVORITE SHIELDER. If you can communicate with them effectively (skype, ventrilo, ts, whatever) EVEN BETTER. Let them know you are using them for cover. There are few things more startling to enemies than seeing a Pikeman paired effectively with a shielder...get a shield wall with a few pikeman behind and you can hear the piss filling their plated boots. When your team engages, let them engage in front of you. If you can't manage to weave in and out of the line and keep your distance--JUMP. Step 10 feet back from the line, pick a target, and prepare an attack. Then, rush forward and jump and bring the pike down. There has been so many times I would have otherwise struck a teammate or missed if I had not employed jump-tactics with the Pike.

3. Anti-cav: Pikes are, contrary to popular belief, far from the best anti cav weapon. Long Spear and Bamboo Spear are vastly superior anti cav weapons. This is due to the speed difference between the pike and these weapons. Pike is slow as balls, so you need to be chambered quite a bit before the cav get near you, or they'll just lance you before you can get your thrust ready. If you see cav charging you, and an ally is in the way, I'm sorry to say the only thing you can do is try to get positioned such that as soon as the cav runs over/ impales your ally you can stab the horse. It's tempting to try and rush forward to stop the cav before they reach your ally, but more often than not this will just end up with your ally getting in the way and you either stabbing your ally, or not being able to get a hit in and you both get run over, and the cav runs free. Many cav will turn away before reaching your ally anyway if they realize there's a pikeman waiting right afterwards to stop them.

ALWAY AIM FOR THE HORSE. If you strike at the rider they'll more than likely just block you, since you have to be chambered long before they reach you, and because only retarded cav will try to outrange you, they'll be playing defensively.

Generally the only way to take out cav with a pike is by sneak attacks, you're much more useful working as a mobile anti-cav wall, rather than for actually killing them. Do watch out for sudden charges though, as these can potentially catch you without enough time to chamber your attack.

4. Picking your targets. #1 priority is stopping any cav rushing towards your allies, however most cav aren't dumb enough to charge at an aware pike, so just keep this in the back of your mind, and stay alert.
                                     #2 priority is split between crushthrough weapons and other pikemen/longspears. These can be
                                                   extremely deadly in group fights, and are the greatest threat to you as well.                             
                                     #3 is hoplites. Often an underestimated class, they fill a similar role as you do. The reason they're #3 rather than tied for #2 is simply
                                                   because their shield allows them to be better equipped to stop your attacks
                                    #4 is 2H and other Polearms. They can deal heavy damage, but have little ability to protect themselves from you.
                                    #5 is shielders. They have the best ability to stop your attacks, and pose relatively little threat.
                                                  However, keep your eye out for the really aggressive ones, as they can force their way through your allies to you, and
                                                  take a sizeable chunk out of your health before your thrust stun is over.

Also a good note from [ptx] on dealing with other support polearms:
What i could add is that as far as fights between pikes, long spears, bamboo spears and hoplites go, the longer weapon almost always beats the shorter one. Pike is the ultimate anti-long spear weapon, long spear is the ultimate anti-bamboo spear/hoplite weapon. In a group fight, one of these effectively renders enemies with shorter stabbers completely helpless.

A note about picking targets: Watch out for the really good players. They need to be raised on your priority list dramatically. If you notice there's one or two players on the enemy team who are simply tearing your team to pieces, try to get sneak shots in on them. Even the best players have a hard time blocking multiple enemies in addition to a pikeman.

Also a quick note about ranged. Archers in particular seem to be really really bad at estimating when you can hit them. A quick jump stab headshot at the last minute has got me many a kill against ranged.

Weaknesses:

The Pike has a large number of weaknesses that you'll need to learn to overcome.

1. Your attacks are slow. VERY SLOW. Plan ahead, and try not to waste thrusts. Thrusting against a blocking opponent can be useful for goading them into releasing their downblock, but it is a risky move.

2. You have only 1 attack direction. This means, some scrub holding down block is, quite literally, invulnerable to you. This is one of the primary reasons to carry a sidearm, and to have allies near you.

3. Your thrusts will get caught on every rock, tree, wall, table, hill, stairs, and pebble within eyesight. Try to fight in flat open areas that are not easily accessible to cavalry.

4. You are physically incapable of hitting enemies within about 4 feet of you. This means you need to pull some fancy moves in order to have any chance in 1v1 without pulling out your sidearm.

5. You are slowed down based on the length of your held weapon, and the pike is the longest weapon in the game, meaning it slows you down by a fair bit, so in order to not get bogged down you need some extra ath.


Players to watch out for:

First and foremost, beware of throwers. They are the rock to your scissors. In general, try to avoid them and have your allies tie them up/kill them. If it is absolutely necessary that you attack a thrower, do a standard wiggle walk to get close, then jump to either the left or right, and stab them in the head mid jump. Once you're this close, you can pressure them and keep them from being able to throw again.

Very long 2 or 4 directional weapons you also need to beware of, as they can often hit you immediately after a failed thrust, or in the middle of a helicopter stab. Not much you can do about these except play defensively and try to have an ally tie them up.

Finally, watch out for crushthrough weapons. The best tactic against them is generally to either have an ally deal with them, or to pull out your sidearm. If you don't have time to do either of these, you can often avoid their overheads by facehugging them, and running around them.



1v1 Fighting:

Pikes are poor 1v1 weapons, however this does not mean you're defenseless, in fact against some people the pike is a very good choice for 1v1, simply because they assume you're going to be an easy kill.

1. Choosing a sidearm: Some pikers decide to not use a sidearm, and with a longspear I can understand this. Longspear has very few situations where it's totally useless. The Pike, however, has many more weaknesses that a sidearm can help counter. A lot of people choose to use the quarterstaff as their sidearm, but personally I prefer using the Italian Sword, Military Cleaver, Military Pick, fighting axe in 2H mode, or (my personal favorite) the langes messer in 2H mode.

2. Switching to the sidearm: It can often be tricky to decide exactly when to switch, or even HOW to switch to your sidearm. Don't try it if your opponent is swinging away at you, you'll get yourself killed. See #3 below on how to deal with spammers.

One technique that has gotten me a fair number of kills, is to charge towards the enemy with the pike chambered, and right before the tip of the pike reaches them, pull out your side arm and spam 2-3 hits. Many people can't adjust fast enough from fighting a 1 direction pikeman to fighting a 3-4 directional player to immediately start blocking you. Therefore, while they're still downblocking you can often get a couple free hits in.

Other than that, one decent time to switch is immediately after a successful jump thrust, or even before you reach your opponent at all.

3. 180 Helicopter: My personal favorite technique for 1v1 with the pike. It's very useful against spammy opponents looking to kill you as quickly as possible. First, wait for them to run up to you, and block their first couple hits, while backpeddling. You want to give the appearance of being overwhelmed and helpless. After blocking one of their hits, run to either their left or right, forcing them to use a sideswing, which you can predict and easily block (Or if you have heavy armor and they have a low-medium damage cut weapon, you can cause them to glance.) Immediately after passing them, jump and begin chambering your Pike while turning. Turn until you're approximately 15 degrees from aiming at them, then release your attack and guide it into them.

This takes a lot of work to perfect, and will lead to many a humiliating death at first. Don't give up, just keep trying.

4. 360 Helicopter: A bit more advanced the the 180, but possibly even more useful. The basic idea is the same, the difference being that rather than running past them before jumping, you simply turn around and jump. The problem is that if they decide to do a quick attack right before you jump, you get stabbed in the back. The trick with this is to wait for them to pause for a moment. If they're spamming as fast as they can, don't try this. The big advantage here is that you appear to be even more vulnerable, and most people will try to get a hit in, which can allow you to get a nice stab past their down block.

5. Backwards Jumping: This is useful for getting away from an enemy that can't retaliate (For example a downed cav), but if they can retaliate DO NOT TRY A BACKWARDS JUMP. It works with the longspear, but with the pike it's a surefire way to get yourself killed. The pike is long enough that a backwards jump won't put you far enough away to get a hit in. You'll just hit the ground, even if you wiggle.

6. Sideways Helicopter: A very useful technique, but one that requires you to have the timing down perfectly, have decent ping, be facing an opponent with a fairly slow weapon (preferably also a short one), and to be able to goad your opponent into attacking you while you have an attack prepped. Essentially, chamber your pike and begin strafing sideways while facing around 45 degrees away from them. Generally they'll keep a downblock held until they're around facehug range, at which point many people think they're safe. Once they start an attack, IMMEDIATELY jump to the side, away from them, turn into them and release your thrust. This is a risky move and takes a lot of practice. Don't use it if you can avoid it.

A final note about jumping spin stabs, don't try them on a single opponent more than about 2-3 times in a row. They'll figure out what you're up to and you'll get stabbed in the back. After you've tried a few of these, even if they're working, switch to your sidearm.

Final Notes:

1. Stay with the Group! The pike is not a solo weapon. It is a phenomenal support weapon, but if you want to go rambo, get something else. Sometimes you'll end up with a team that simply isn't cohesive enough for the pike to be effective. If this happens, just switch to a different weapon until you get onto a different team.

2. Bind your "view outfit" command to a very easy to reach button. I use the left shift key for mine. Some people seem to have this notion that cavalry leave pikemen alone. Let me tell you right now this is 100% false. Cav will keep an eye on you throughout the fight, and if they think you're vulnerable or not paying attention, they'll lance you in the back. So, stay alert!

3. Pay attention to your allies. You're there to support them, they're there to protect you. Despite this, you can't always depend on them to try to hold up to their end of that. Some people just don't understand how to play with a pikeman, others just don't really care. Therefore, try to predict how your allies will react to what you and your enemies do, and try to turn the tide of fights in favor of your allies. Even just standing nearby with an attack chambered can be enough to make your enemies slip up.

4. Don't let the anti pike trolls get to you.
One final note for pike users, don't let people get to you. They will complain about this being a broken weapon, or a noob weapon, or just OP in general. The facts speak for themselves, and the amount of skill needed to use this weapon effectively and top score boards with it is immense. There are a handful of people in NA I can think of that are great Pike Users, Caita is one of them. A lot of people will pick up a pike and use it, but until you dedicate a generation or more to it really feeling it out and really fully learning it--you'll never appreciate it's beauties, strengths, and understand it's flaws and limits.

If anyone has something they want me to cover, or thinks I'm wrong about something, feel free to comment and add suggestions. I'll probably edit this periodically.


NOTE: This was originally posted in the Beginner's Section, but seeing as it needed editing, the original topic was quite old, and I had meant to put it here originally anyway, I'm just starting a new topic here.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 09:30:02 am by Zerran »
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Offline Zerran

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Re: A Guide on using the Pike
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 06:26:32 pm »
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A very good post from Felix:

I did a speedy pikeman build in the past, but i discarded it because the lack of toughness which is essential to pikers. Speedy builds are more viable for ninja characters, but your average pikeman won't run like ninja poking ranged and backstabbing people. Primarily he is one of the most important cores or foundations in melee fights, so he gotta be very durable. I am running 21/18 build with 6 ath, 6 IF and 7 PS. No need to stack points into WM, pike is very slow. 150+ wpf won't make any visibly faster, trust me. I am fine with 140.

Basically pike is ALL about timing and distance. Timing and distance. You have length. But you don't have speed. Without ability to judge properly timing and distance, you will be a bad piker. Because pike's so slow, you can't stack speed related bonuses (like wpf and ath) to make it faster, you gotta use timing and distance guys.

Now, pikeman is a great asset to the team. One competent piker can stop the rush of a small crowd pretty much alone (being the only piker). The most important thing in melee battles is an ability to trust your teammates so you can concentrate on dealing blows to enemies. Pay attention. You can't be narrow-minded like your average 2h, jumping on one enemy and slashing him to death (or get slashed to death), you gotta control the battle. Pike's the greatest weapon for controling cause it's so long and it's spearhead is so small, so you can lunge your pokes in very narrow spaces (even with no visible space at all).

Learn to notice. Whenever a shielder opens up for the attack - hit him without hesitation. Whenever a 2h is ready to slash, poke him. Apply pressure. Even if they block your attacks, it applies a great deal of pressure on them.

Now about enemy pikemen and long spearmen. Those guys are tricky. But you can defeat them, if your timing is perfect. I prefer rushing style. I see pikeman, i rush him without hesitation. Obviously most of times, either i hit him ealier, or he has to block my attack. There are lot of ways to deal with your not so fellow pikeman:

- Distance: be aware of your distance. If you do some boxing, just imagine that you need to outbox and land some counters in. Poke then pull back. Make him impatient, he will try to poke you. You keep the distance THEN you strike. Because of time lag after pike's attack, you have like 0.3 second time for free hit. Keep the distance, wait him to strike you, then RUSH. You may even jump. Just keep the distance – you should be fast enough to dodge his pike, but close enough to close in time before he blocks.

- Timing: The one to let off the button first is the one who connects first. It works almost every time. So keep your timing perfect. And if you SEE that he is faster, dont hesitate - just down block.

- Footwork: Pike's very slow and not really maneuverable. It means that you can dodge it's attack by side-stepping. As most of players are righties, they will unconsiously aim for the LEFT side of the screen. Stepside to the left (your left), and you're out of the range. It won’t work with pro-pikers though, those can change the trajectory in split second

- Surroundings: Pikers can be huge pain in ass. So if you do see couple in the crowd, make them your first time priority. If you see some of them carelessly stabbing anyone but you, feel free to remind them of your presence.

- Don’t be afraid to be a pussy: if you get jammed between more than 2 enemies – run. Actually, even if there’s one guy pressing you hugging his shield and swinging his scimitar – run anyway. Pike’s not duel weapon. And you will be more use to your team alive.
And all those things - they do not come separately. You have to combine it all. For example - you are ready to attack him, you are the faster one, but he still hits. Why? Cause he used distance as well - either he closed in faster than you or he dodged you and then landed a stab.

Longspearmen aren’t really dangerous. Pike length beat their dmg and speed almost every time, just keep your distance, backpedal, poke him, block him, poke him again. Don’t let him get close to you, cause longspear can make that vicious zerodistance stab. But nevertheless it’s not a dangerous enemy – you just downblock and he can poke all he wants. In mass fight they are your easy prey because of your length superiority. To make it short, any hoplite or other poking bastards (war spear, awlpike, long awlpike, long spear, ashwood pike) are inferior to you in term of length, which makes you pretty much apex predator. You don’t even need to keep your timing, length beats it all. If you keep your distance.

To conclude this – you gotta choose your style. If you wanna be aggressive type, the one who jumps into fights, attack-jumps, tough and able to absorb some damage, get some points into IF and get heavy armor. I do this one, though it has drawbacks as well. Because of my aggressiveness I tend to get into situations when I get to close to enemies and pike gets useless there.
As an example – Backlash is using (quite effectively) another style. He’s calm and patient, waiting for enemies to open up. He also wiggles his pike a little and always keep it ready, aiming for somewhere left. It shouldn’t fool you though, the moment you open up, he will always land a precise stab in. He rarely jump-attacks (which I do a lot) and is best using distance factor. I tend to close in too fast and rely more on the timing thing. There are some who master footwork. It’s up to you. Oh, and you should learn to block. Really.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 09:17:26 am by Zerran »
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Offline Baldr

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Re: A Guide on using the Pike
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 03:12:27 pm »
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Oh cool, you did a guide! NOW MAKE ONE FOR LONGSPEARS! :lol:


Offline Gurnisson

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Re: A Guide on using the Pike
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 03:30:14 pm »
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Nice guide.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

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Re: A Guide on using the Pike
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 05:47:52 pm »
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Very helpful. The 2-directional polearms have a very different playstyle than other "big" weapons. I'd like to add that if you have 15+ strength and ranks in Power Strike, you should keep a pike or longspear in your inventory. On certain maps, you can shut out enemies from corridors or ladders with another teamate if you have a long-reaching polearm.
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Re: A Guide on using the Pike
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 01:54:45 am »
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Awesome guide! Hope i'm not grave digging but this needs some more views!