How to fix the pike.

[Ragni_Bross]

I've suggested this before but nothing's been done and I see no harm in presenting my idea once again.

I hate how the pikes work in cRPG because they simply don't work like pikes should. This silly idea that your "main" weapon should always be able to block no matter which weapon it is has ruined the way pikes work. Because pikes can block they cannot get buffed realistically without upsetting the balance completely so therefore they've been locked.

My idea is this: Make pikes unable to block (anyone with half a brain will understand why), make them cost a fraction of what they cost now (pikes are simple and easily manifactured weapons, very well suited to arm masses of poor peasants), give them a high stab so they cannot be made useless by simply doing a low block (giving them a high stab would also greatly increase their tactical possibilities) and, if possible, make them braceable like in Deluge (works like this: when you're bracing your pike you cannot move but if a horse rides into your pike it takes a lot of damage!) Using a pike should be risky and it should be all about working together and, most importantly, it should be cheap. It makes no sense how new players (peasants more or less) cannot use the perfect weapon for a peasant. If you make them cheap, unable to block and give them the extra attack they'd actually work like pikes and people would not mind dropping their pike to use their sidearm as much if the pike doesn't cost 5 k. This way you can't duel with your pike or block small weapons coming at your face but you can easily get rid of the pike and use another weapon and you won't go broke in the process.

Let me know what you think, but really, who on earth would have anything against making something more realistic while also preserving what little "balance" cRPG has left?

So, again, here's the steps: Make pikes unable to block, give them a new high stab, make them a lot cheaper so that most people can afford them and, if possible, make them braceable like real pikes (this worked great in Deluge).

[owens]

The current high stab animations are far too dangerous.(most 1 hit all are far to fast)


most "brace pike" Animations in this game are reliant on crouching.


Otherwise i agree completely.

I gave up this mod because of the death of cRPG Australia. cRPG Australia however was killed by over-nerfing. When there are not enough players for ganking 1 on 1 is important chadz didn't see it that way(In Europe there are lots of players). Realism like this could have saved cRPg in Australia.

[[ptx]]

This would work if your average greatsword hero wouldn't be able to get within facehug distance after just a single block/dodged attack. By which i mean if movement was different. By which i mean if this wasn't M&B Warband.

[Ragni_Bross]

This would work if your average greatsword hero wouldn't be able to get within facehug distance after just a single block/dodged attack. By which i mean if movement was different. By which i mean if this wasn't M&B Warband.

That's why the pike has to be cheap so you can easily discard and pull out your sidearm. He'll only get that close to you if you're fighting him 1v1. If you've got allies and you're fighting as a pikeman should instead of slapping people with your über disco stick it'll work. As said before, the pike will suck 1v1, but why shouldn't it? The pike is meant to support not to dominate and counter every single class and scenario thrown at it.

[Haboe]

Love the idea. More realistic and adds a new style to the game.

You can use the high stab animation from mount and blade with fire and sword..

[Mlekce]

I get usualy killed with 1 or 2 pike stabs,if it just hit me once i loose 60-70% of health with 21 str and 7 if build with 50 body armor.
Dmg is fine,and it is silly how pikes are fast in blocking. Piker can block like he have a stick in his hand.

[Ragni_Bross]

Yep. Those things just shouldn't be able to block. It's ridiculous.

[Bjord]

The animation for the high stab in Deluge is very wonky, and it's kind of confusing. I guess at first you'd have a hard time to adjust to it, but I still don't like the high stab. It's a bad animation, simply put.

I am for a no-block on pikes and long spears, and bracing seems like a nice way to give the pike family some better and more appropriate features.

However, this has all been suggested at one point in cRPG history. Still, +1 I guess.

[Byrdi]

Fuck realism... I like it anyway. We should give it a try, though I am not sure that it will make things better.

I hate pikes/long spears even in their current useless state

[owens]

Dont use the overhead attacks from napoleanic or f&s. allthough both of these games are better than cRPG (atm). It is an awful animation.

[Zerran]

That's why the pike has to be cheap so you can easily discard and pull out your sidearm. He'll only get that close to you if you're fighting him 1v1. If you've got allies and you're fighting as a pikeman should instead of slapping people with your über disco stick it'll work. As said before, the pike will suck 1v1, but why shouldn't it? The pike is meant to support not to dominate and counter every single class and scenario thrown at it.

1: This would make the pike not a primary weapon. I would no longer be a pikeman, I'd be some guy with a trash stick and a 1 slot sidearm.

2: This would mean pikes would be completely useless unless you're in a VERY team-play oriented clan with at least 7+ people online. I wouldn't call that something that "peasants" could use.

3. Pike already sucks 1v1. Downblock, wait for the thrust, hit them back, downblock. They literally cannot do anything to you if you just repeat this. They will HAVE to draw their sidearm or die. Helicopter stabbing does not magically make downblock useless, so hold that damn RMB. The only time people die to a Pike 1v1 is because they got overconfident, they don't understand the fundamentals of fighting a pikeman, or they were retarded.

4. Maybe you've never played as a pikeman, but we're the primary targets of any decent players. Already players are able to quite easily rush past our allies to start beating on us, if this change was made this would lead to instant pikeman death. Pikemen HAVE to be able to block, and do so well, or they will not last long.

I played something like 5 gens before I started using the Pike. My ability to block was garbage until then. Within a couple weeks of using the Pike, I was successfully blocking at least twice as many hits. Blocking is fundamentally important to a pikeman's role in c-rpg.

Is it realistic? Hell no. But then, this is a game. Did real fighters only have 4 possible attacks, which could be perfectly blocked by 4 different blocks? In a real fight could someone simply hold their sword down and then run straight into a pike without taking damage? In a real fight can people swing and run endlessly without getting tired? In a real fight can a horse or man get mortally wounded but keep running around just fine? In a real fight do you have a health bar, at the end of which you die, instantly? In a real fight can you accidentally swing full force into a rock without your weapon taking any damage? In a real fight are people more concerned about kill whoring than winning or surviving? Etc, etc, etc.

Why is it that the Pike is the one melee weapon that people constantly try and make "more realistic"? (i.e. nerf into the ground) Just leave the damn thing alone. Already there are only a handful of pikemen who are even slightly competent with it after all the nerfing it's recieved.


tl;dr: DON'T TOUCH MAH PIKE!!!