IP ban for autoblockers

[Arrowblood]

Panos gets IP  banned?

[Christo]

hardcore cases like Odinvalhalla or Panos (in a week)

o.O

[Grumbs]

Pretty much the same from my side. It might be different if we wouldn't have leveling and stuff, but here you have to start from scratch. How often do you think it's fun to restart before you give up using cheats that don't make you any better?

The problem with this approach is that people can have hacking accounts that they just STF chars on and autoblock for months until the next ban wave hits. Then buy another and same again. You can get warband cheap as chips, to someone who likes hacking the price is not an obstacle.

I think this wishy washy approach to hacking undermines every legit player in the game. The game isn't on its ass so much that it needs to cling onto these types of players, imo

[Leshma]

That's perfect example for what I was trying to say.

They can IP ban beer because this is a free mod and they are just a group of developers who aren't selling a product.

But if they were a company, beer or anyone IP banned for the similar "reason" could sue their company and would probably win at any court, no matter what kind of EULA he "signed".

I've yet to meet adult and mature person who had problem with beer. He is a troll (positive troll imho) and anything he says to you can be countered or ignored. Only kids cry when beer "molests" them.

About court thing, I'm aware that suing company for banning your character sounds silly but it's a lot less silly than any excuse you can make for IP banning beer. Mature people value their time, because time is money, even time spent on gaming. So it's not just a video game like Paul says.

On the other hand, any reason you give us for banning beer will make no sense and eventually it all comes to:

We will do it because we want to and because we can.

And that's fine if we take into account nature of cRPG and your status as developers of free mod.

But if you were a company which is selling product for money, you can't do anything you want without a valid reason. There are laws which protect the customers from bad companies.

Somehow I have feeling that if you read this, you'll post another trollish no. But that won't change the fact, something majority of people who play this mod already realised, that none of you guys isn't capable of running succesful business, at least not in a way you're doing it here. I still wish you luck, because you're very talented developers who have that "something" and are capable of making a good game

[chadz]

Going offtopic much? You have no arguments, so you're creating straw man.

This was about us not IP banning cheaters.
Then you said we can't continue not banning people.
Then I disagreed.
Suddenly, you turn it into us IP banning a troll.
Which has never happened.
Then you say we can't do that.
What we haven't even considered because IP bans are the most stupid way to solve this.
Then you say we will get in legal trouble for doing so.
Which is both wrong and irrelevant, because we never did and never will.
Then you say some more legal stuff that shows me you have not the slightest clue of law.
Which is ok by me.
Then you say some more stuff that shows me you know as much about business as you do about law.
Which I don't mind either.

But I really don't see anything valid in your post.

First of all, Panos was banned from the forum for trolling and pushing the boundaries too far. The forum is a different entity. You wouldn't pay money for the forum.

Then, there are rules that are stated, and are also common sense. Extensive Trolling / annoying everyone else in a server is reason enough to block you from joining that server. And whats up with your idea of IP bans. What is this, 1998? Seriously, get a grip before you're doing baseless accusations against us.

But I have no doubt you create another made up story to show how stupid we are.

[clown1231]

IP bans are silly. They're easy to bypass, since IP addresses are by no means permanent. Not to mention that if this method was still used for enforcement, the smart people would either change their IP or just take their laptop to some place with free wifi and get the wifi IP banned.

CD Key bans aren't effective at all, since it's really easy to get a hold of a new one off Amazon, they consistently sell Warband for 10 bucks digitally. Sure, it's a waste of money to pay for another key if you're just going to use autoblocker or some other mod again, but I honestly don't care if someone just buys a ton of keys.

The best way to deal with autoblockers is to simply temp ban them for a week, telling them to stop using autoblock, then permaban if they use it again. It really irks me when people hack, since it just ruins the game for all. However, dealing this with a level head is the best way to do things. Not that the community is in any shape to do that... But honestly, most of the admins strike me to be mature folks, especially when on the job.

I haven't even seen any autoblockers, but honestly, it somewhat like a shield... If you're not smart enough to bring it up when you need to block, you're dead anyway.

[Vibe]

I have seen way too much cheating in my life to ever be tolerant to cheaters. If it was up to me I'd permaban them in every possible way. Troyicide is a good example of how cheaters hardly ever learn.

[Paul]

Of course ip banning panos was a joke. I'm sure he'll himself into trouble soon because that is his very nature, but he is not on the same power level as odin.

If you would actually read common terms and conditions of online games, you'd find something like this:

Without limiting other remedies, the dönkey may at any time suspend or terminate your dönkey  Account and refuse to provide access to our Services if dönkey suspects or determines, in its own discretion, that you may have or there is a significant risk that you have: (i) failed to comply with any provision of these Terms or any policies or Rules established by the dönkey; (ii) engaged in actions relating to or in the course of using our Services that may be illegal or cause liability, harm, embarrassment, harassment, abuse or disruption for you, dönkey Users, the dönkey or any other third parties or our Services; or (iii) infringed the proprietary rights, rights of privacy, or Intellectual Property Rights of any person, including as a repeat infringer. In addition, the dönkey may notify authorities or take any other actions it deems appropriate, without notice to you, in the event of any of the above.

Which means you can be kicked out at any time if the dönkey thinks you deserve it.

[SchokoSchaf]

Mature people value their time, because time is money, even time spent on gaming. So it's not just a video game like Paul says.

I always love this argument. It basicly suggests you're working 24/7 a week and have to charge yourself for your free time. I love capitalism.

[Elio]

Well, a ban based on IP couldn't work with some ISP like mine (Orange France Télécom) using dynamic IPv4, every time my router restart my WAN/internet' IP change.

The only reliable way is to rely on the identity card with the location by tracing route of IP. But it's very restrictive and very cumbersome to manage...

[Nessaj]

IP-bans are quite useless though, even if someone has a Static IP you change it with a simple call to your ISP's support.

Hardware ID bans are the only way forward

However that should be reserved for severe cases or repeat offenders.

Generally speaking I personally (as always) believe in global banning cheaters from all games though -- no second chances when it come to cheating in a game -- and luckily that is the way things are moving forward in the anti-cheating world:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


There's even rumours of BattlEye and PunkBuster working together to share ban lists. That would make me an extremely happy gamer. The only way we're going to ever get rid of cheating in gaming is by enforcing initiatives such as what I've mentioned above, you cheat in BF3? Well wave goodbye to every single gaming account you have. Now that's fair, that's justice, how things should be. Imagine what a much more nice gaming culture we'd have. One step closer to Utopia.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

IMO there's no difference whether you cheat (Aimbot/Wallhack) in game A or B, if you cheat you're a cheater and you should be banned from all games, not just the one you cheated in. That would make every single cheater think twice about doing the act, when there's a chance of losing the games you actually like and not those you just want to troll around in with cheating to ruin others fun evenings. Suddenly we're talking a few hundred Euro worth of games instead of a 5€ sale. People would learn that cheating has actual consequences.

Obviously though, there is a difference in what sort of cheats work for different genres of gaming, I would compare auto-block to wall hack, since blocking doesn't make you good at feints or attack timing, BUT the cheater doesn't only ruin game-play time for the persons he fights but also creates a butterfly effect that possibly affects a multitude of people both in-game and outside the game.

I always love this argument. It basicly suggests you're working 24/7 a week and have to charge yourself for your free time. I love capitalism.

I work 24/7, so does millions of other people -- especially those in the technology sector -- I don't appreciate that when I finally have time to play that it gets ruined by cheaters, not that an autoblocker ruins it for the whole server in MNB though, there's more variables to it than that, but some people have scarce time and they truly have their evenings, mood or plans ruined by cheaters. That is unacceptable.

[Andswaru]

If you found using auto blocker or another cheater you should at least face a timeout of  3months via ip ban if possible (excluding cases were existing 2 copies household exist) in cases hardcore enough to warrant account termination.
Then after 3 months they should be given the chance to rejoin as a reabilitated charater if they so wish.

[Elio]

A good way to avoid a massive come back of banned cheaters would be to force newcomers (new CD key) to play during 1 month with a penalty, by forcing them to play on only one server (for beginners) with for example : lvl cap, gold cap, peasant outfit only, with a sticker "kick me" on back... (joke)

[Torben]

but,  but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

they dont know what they are doing ^^

[Leshma]

but,  but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

they dont know what they are doing ^^

Yeah, right. Every wave certain number of their friends (CamelScreamers in this case) were permabanned for the same thing and they still keep doing it. They perfectly know what they are doing, kids or not.

Funny thing is that most of them make archer chars on their new accounts and start giving headshots like experienced archers. Rarely they choose shielder class. The more I'm witnessing this phenomena the more I think there's something fishy about archery, some cheat devs aren't aware of.