Increasing the depth of melee

[Vibe]

If any of you ever played a Jedi Knight game, you will know what I'm on about. If you haven't, it's quite simple: Jedi Knight games had 3 different "stances" for lightsaber combat, the blue stance was the fastest and least damaging, the yellow was medium speed medium damage and the heavy was the best damage but the slowest speed. I believe this could be implemented in cRPG but in a slightly different way, since each stance in JK had also different animations.

You can watch the video showing lightsaber stances here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I502Rl3TMA

Anyway,


Melee stances

Basically, we would have 3 stances like in JK, a light, medium and heavy one. You could cycle between the three by pressing a key. Switching stances would take like a second or two and would not be possible during attack/block.
Since making different animations would require tons of work (we probably don't even have a guy who could do it), I propose the differences between the stances would be more "stat wise". So, we would have:
Light Stance - increases attack speed by 20%, reduces damage by 40-50%
Medium Stance - what we have now
Heavy Stance - increases damage of attack by 20%+, but reduces swing speed by 40% (maybe even a slight delay to block speed)

Ofcourse all these percentages right now are just guesswork for balance, it would need further testing and tinkering. I believe this would bring more depth to combat without actually slowing it down (I'm looking at you, stamina fanboiz).

IF we have someone who could do the animations, it would be extremely cool to have different animations for light and heavy stance - so people can read what stance someone is using and adapt to it.

[v/onMega]

Played it online back then, multiplayer went total beserk sometimes. Great fun.

Good idea.

[Zerran]

Stances would, imo, be a great addition.

The above mentioned would be cool.

Or perhaps something like:

Offensive - +20% outgoing damage +30% incoming damage.

Balanced - +0% outgoing damage +0% incoming damage (what we have now)

Defensive - -30% outgoing damage -20% incoming damage.

Offensive could be used by pikemen and such behind shield walls, while Defensive would be used for Shielders in a shield wall. Balanced would be a general purpose (Best all around, but no specialty)

[Bulzur]

No Zerran, no special "tank" stance, where you soak up more damage, even if you deal less.

But good suggestion from the OP, where you could choose to land a heavy blow when ninjaing range, fast blows when ganked, and normal blows in clusterfuck.

Since the reduction of speed/damage is more important than the bonus to damage/speed, i think it's okay.

Though with the heavy stance, hitting someone rushing to you, like a horse, would deal a HUGE amount of damage thanks to speed bonus.

[Leshma]

We already have what you're suggesting but once you choose your stance you can't change it. It's called character builds.

Personally, I wouldn't mind your suggestion but if they won't even consider my suggestion which will give everyone more options and add depth to every character (not just melee) I doubt devs will consider this.

This goes against specialization, which is dominant trend in cRPG for quite some time.

[Vibe]

Yes, this would in a way "reduce" the effect of builds, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It might even add to depth that you'll use different stances versus different builds and could get pretty complicated

[owens]

good idea.

[Leshma]

Yes, this would in a way "reduce" the effect of builds, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It might even add to depth that you'll use different stances versus different builds and could get pretty complicated

Yeah, it will be another thing you can't see but affects the outcome. I like that actually, but most people don't.

Also currently builds are shit, we never had less variation in builds since I've started playing this.

[Rusty_Shacklefjord]

Taleworlds seems to have done their homework when making Mount & Blade. You may not realize it, but there are several classic 'stances' included in the game. Here are just a couple, for 'long swords.'

vom Tag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhXUmuE5iF8
This is reflected in-game with the overhand strikes and the greatswords' neutral position, holding the sword at the shoulder.

Ochs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq4nYXeUgk
Named after the horns of an ox, this stance is reflected in-game with the thrust.

Most of the other animations (blocks, side-hews, etc) also have some basis in reality. It's actually pretty impressive that they nailed historical fencing so well, especially since no other developer seems able to.

Anyway, it doesn't really seem possible to introduce any more stances without coming up with new animations and drastically altering the game. I'd also like to see some more stuff like diagonal cuts and alternate guards and etc added in for depth and variety, but it's not likely to happen unless I make my own game from scratch.

[Farrok]

Taleworlds seems to have done their homework when making Mount & Blade. You may not realize it, but there are several classic 'stances' included in the game. Here are just a couple, for 'long swords.'

vom Tag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhXUmuE5iF8
This is reflected in-game with the overhand strikes and the greatswords' neutral position, holding the sword at the shoulder.

Ochs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq4nYXeUgk
Named after the horns of an ox, this stance is reflected in-game with the thrust.

Most of the other animations (blocks, side-hews, etc) also have some basis in reality. It's actually pretty impressive that they nailed historical fencing so well, especially since no other developer seems able to.

Anyway, it doesn't really seem possible to introduce any more stances without coming up with new animations and drastically altering the game. I'd also like to see some more stuff like diagonal cuts and alternate guards and etc added in for depth and variety, but it's not likely to happen unless I make my own game from scratch.

chamberblocking for example is like an active parry in historical fencing...right swing like an Zornhau...for a game its accurate eough...it would be too complicated to implement techniques which are not on the beginnerlevel...would only be possible with button kombinations or hotkeys
here some videos of gladiatores fencing school, some more advance techniques, several weapons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TzdtyMC7ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg

[Logen]

good idea but we need different animations for that
otherwise it would suck

right swing like an Zornhau...

not really

[justjr]

Maybe stances should be bough or earn with skill points.
Like u need 3 PS or more to use fight stances, with 5 PS u earn the last stance.
And 3 PD or more to use aim stances.... for instance.

[San]

Makes sense with wpf since you're mastering the weapon.

[justjr]

yeah, or wpf

[Haboe]

Maybe stances should be bough or earn with skill points.
Like u need 3 PS or more to use fight stances, with 5 PS u earn the last stance.
And 3 PD or more to use aim stances.... for instance.

Would b e more logic that you d need 7+ ps for heavy stance and 7+wm to use fast/defensive fighting stand.

Either way this is an interesting suggestion, but in the end it will simply make str builds more damaging and speed builds faster. Ofc you can switch, but if you are fully build on speed, you are not going to give that up for a little damage bonus, youll try to spam your way through anything