Thread for crossbowmen [+ poll]

[Dravic]

Hey all.

I'd like to find out, what is your crossbowman build, how many points in crossbow do you have at 30 lvl (calculated by cRPG calculator, which you can find here: http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm) and how do you like shooting with your crossbow.

There is also a poll for you - vote, what crossbows do you prefer to use.

Rules of this thread:

1. Poll
1.a Vote for your favourite crossbows. By that, I mean, that I don't care what build you use or is char that uses it your main or alt. Chose your favourites!
1.b You can chose up to 5 options. I thought about it, and this way noone is hurt: if someone likes every crossbow, he can chose every option.
1.c You have to be a crossbowman to vote. Of course, I can't stop you from voting if you're not crossbowman, but don't troll in this thread, please!

2. Post
2.a Every post has to consist of few things:
I Your favourite crossbowman build
II How many points in crossbow do you have at 30 lvl (calculated by cRPG calculator, which you can find here: http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm) (you can skip this point, if you bold crossbow wpf in your crossbowman build)
III What do you think about crossbows as they are now. By that, I mean:
^1. Do you feel shoting with your amount of WPF is accurate.
^2. Is crossbow damage enough.
^3. Are crossbows balanced for you.
(Eventually, you can also add a personal comment about this thread etc. in the end of the post, but I'd prefer, if you will split main part of your post and comment by putting something like this between them:
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2.b Your thoughts about how to improve shooting with crossbow to make it better. You can skip this point if you have no ideas how to improve it.

3. Every post, that is not built correctly:
3.a If it is generally on-topic, user who posted it will be pleased to fix his post.
3.b If it is generally off-topic, user who posted it will be pleased to rewrite it.
3.c If user will refuse to do points 3.a and/or 3.b, or his post will be trollish, post will be reported to moderator and hopefully removed and user will be punished.

I think that's all.

I'd love to keep this clean from trolls.

Regards,
Dravic

[Christo]

I only have plans for a Semi-dedicated Crossbow guy, but I picked up some of them and fired a few times with them.

The ones I liked were the regular Crossbow, the Heavy and the Sniper. Those were quite fun.
Their lighter counterparts were a bit too slow for me (the projectiles), and a bit weak.

Well, to answer some of your questions, I prefer builds with some melee fighting abilites as well, As it is now, giving up 5-10 point from your primary gives 50-85 on your secondary, and so on. And some melee abilites never hurt. At least for you.

When I fired the Sniper for an example, I had 1 WPF in Crossbows, but it was very fun. This leads to the other question:
Crossbows should have a bit worse accuracy without WPF investment. There'll be always 0 skill shotgunners, I tried to Snipe instead if possible. It worked. That needs a change, either with a Crossbow Expertise skill, or making a steep WPF Curve, where you need at least 75-100 WPF to Actually hit something not at your feet. The current upkeep pricing also solved some of the Crossbow sidearm problems, I don't see that often.

[Dravic]

My favourite crossbowman build is:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 27
Hit points: 50
Converted: 14
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 9
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 181
Throwing: 1

As you can see, it's pure crossbowman build. I'm using it currently and it is great fun. It provides best possible accuracy with sniper crossbow. Hope to heirloom sniper crossbow, because I'm really into shooting with it now.
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I've also used horse crossbowman build, worked well with light crossbow:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 7
Agility: 30
Hit points: 42
Converted: 4
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 2
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 10
Horse Archery: 5
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 10
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 116
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 170
Throwing: 1


That's a hybrid, tho I would say pure crossbow would be reloading faster thus would defeat cavalry even faster, so pure crossbow is a viable choice.
Well, when riding at full speed on courser, I was as accurate as standing still. That was the best in this build for me: max accuracy and speed bonus made my light crossbow deadly versus enemy cavalry. 1-2 shots to kill most of horses but the heaviest ones. Yeah, exactly. I was a horse killer. Due to accuracy and speed of my horse I could defeat every cavalry, even if it was me versus 3+ opponents. My Palfrey was really fast, faster than courser.

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I think, that crossbows are really balanced atm. They provide high shot speed (heavier ones), generally good dmg and let you make a hybrid. And it is not true what they say, that pure crossbowmen are gone, because you are reloading fast and can get MAX accuracy. And it is worth it! Hell, I'd say, that even HC and HA are balanced now. Why? Because HC is faster (moving) and has generally better accuracy when riding fast, and HA is faster (shoting), has generally better accuracy when standing still (because light crossbow never will get 100% accuracy due to limit in game mechanics) or riding slowly AND both HC and HA have +/- same dmg. It depends if you count dmg by 1 shot or in time period, but I'd count dmg in time period.

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What I would suggest to improve shoting with crossbow is to... leave it as it is and improve archery by adding +3 dmg to every bow and balance longbow to make it more viable. So crossbowmen will have a bit bigger challenge.

[tankmen]

my build is 21/15
2h :130
polearm:70
crossbow:46
IF:7
PS:7
Shield:5
Riding:5
WM:5
i have a master work sniper xbow, a heavy crossbow, and normal crossbow for when im not in the mood to pay 870 gold repair.
i didn't notice much difference between 46 crossbow and 63(which is as high as i've gotten it). i notice the difference between my heavy and masterwork pretty fast, my heavy crossbow's bolt drops faster and of course damage, my maser work does 95P and the heavy does about 60P. i had decided on master working my crossbow cause i swap back and fourth between 1h and 2h, and i wanted to heirloom a weapon and no matter what a crossbow is a usable 1h or 2h

as for your 181 points in cross bow i end to disagree with people that go past 130, after 130 every point costs 7 WPP. 7 WPP that could easily make another weapon decent, which is what i do, such as pole arm for me, they are fast on there own so not much WPF is needed, also i have a masterwork heavy lance. i think the best idea for your pure crossbow build would be to stop at 130 then get some melee WPF, you could easily have 130/100+ with that build.

in the end heirloom weapons tend to allow you to put points else where, i used to get 75-85 pole arm but went as low as 50 one generation because of masterwork, but as i said before i didn't notice a difference at such a low crossbow skill, so i decided more pole arm than crossbow skill because in the end i could probably go 0 WPF in crossbow bow and be fine, but i like to say that i have put points in there, people tend to get mad when you kill them with 0 WPF,trying to keep the crossbow hate down.

[Jacko]

Pure crossbow might be fun, but in this crossbowmans humble opinion, your only gimping yourself. Crossbows are at their best when used in short to medium distance. You don't want to be missing and reloading half the game just cause your flinging bolts at some random archer halfway across the map. If you want to survive up and close to the melee, you'll need some melee proficiency as well. Your HC build seem very viable, but the "pure" crossbowman is just, well fail.

You need at least 80 melee prof, preferable 100 or so, and a decent melee weapon.

Viable builds for the infantry orientated would be str enough for the crossbow of your choice, then the rest in agi (ex: 15/24). I'm currently rolling a heavy support build with 6 IF/PS (18/21), which usually earns me a high placement on the scoreboard, and perhaps the most important part: I'm an asset to my team, instead of just being another asshat on a roof exchanging bolts and arrows. 

[Darkkarma]

I've messed around with both 15/24 and 18/21 builds, with the latter being my favorite. I tend to always have around 130-135 WPF by the time it's all said and done as opposed to my 150 before with the 15/24 build. The accuracy difference from 130-150 is pretty small, also, at 130 you are incredibly accurate at any range, and the reload time for the sniper bow is pretty tolerable. I'd also say the damage is more than enough. The pure, lumbering strength builds are all that take more than two shots most of the time.

As far as xbows go damage wise, they are fine. I think range in general(aside from throwing) is in a good place right now. The only real suggestion I would have is putting an extra required skill for crossbow, similar to how bows need  WPF and powerdraw as well. Crossbows are such an easy hybrid option at this point and time. Hybdrid archers take a considerable loss of potential WPF when hybriding, I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for both of us. I can currently get away with 120 in melee in addition to my 130 in crossbow, giving me so many more options in battle (I can also manage 5 powerstrike 4 iron flesh 7 athletics AND 7 weapon master), while a serious archer hybrid is lucky to get half that amount.

[Farrok]

I've messed around with both 15/24 and 18/21 builds, with the latter being my favorite. I tend to always have around 130-135 WPF by the time it's all said and done as opposed to my 150 before with the 15/24 build. The accuracy difference from 130-150 is pretty small, also, at 130 you are incredibly accurate at any range, and the reload time for the sniper bow is pretty tolerable. I'd also say the damage is more than enough. The pure, lumbering strength builds are all that take more than two shots most of the time.

As far as xbows go damage wise, they are fine. I think range in general(aside from throwing) is in a good place right now. The only real suggestion I would have is putting an extra required skill for crossbow, similar to how bows need  WPF and powerdraw as well. Crossbows are such an easy hybrid option at this point and time. Hybdrid archers take a considerable loss of potential WPF when hybriding, I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for both of us. I can currently get away with 120 in melee in addition to my 130 in crossbow, giving me so many more options in battle (I can also manage 5 powerstrike 4 iron flesh 7 athletics AND 7 weapon master), while a serious archer hybrid is lucky to get half that amount.

+1
maybe give Xbow Powerdraw as requirement...or a new skill but powerdraw would be enough...its not to much only 1-5 so the best xbow for 5 pd and the best HC xbow for 2 (HA need atleast 4 pd, when they want to make damage 15 <- all goes in cost of accuracy)


HC/HA: the only thing is imbalanced that easier to build a HC or a HC/Melee Hybrid...as a HA you need a 15/24 build with all wpf in archery to do good damage and have enough accuracy to hit something (12/24 is good too but than you can only use khergit bow...all below khergit is a waste) where HC have good amount of piercing damage without sacrificing damage...even with a 9/30 build...i played both and i must say i have done fine with both...though i playing HA since M&B beginning and HC only for a short time and it was both same effectivness

the real problem is that HA was nerfed so hard because of the archer nerfs which hit a HA twice as hard and a HC like half as hard as an archer

the times where a full armored HA on lvl 42+ with 200 wpf are gone...but with the huge damage nerf on archer+wpf decrease+levelcap its hard to build a Hybrid, HC can build Hybrid though but sacrifice some accuracy mostly

[Dravic]

Epic bump.