Facts and myths about Lancer cav

[Osiris]

cav is the single easiest class to play. i made a stf alt with an arabian and its just crazy how many kills you get. my crowning glory i think must have been when i couched a GK who had just spanwed off his horse JUSTICE!

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

cav is the single easiest class to play. i made a stf alt with an arabian and its just crazy how many kills you get. my crowning glory i think must have been when i couched a GK who had just spanwed off his horse JUSTICE!

Try using a real horse not a fairy kthnxbai

[Osiris]

you seem to think thats the only horse ive ever ridden my biggest scores were while riding a champion rouncey as a 1h. it is the easiest class if you cant see that then well there is no hope for you

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

you seem to think thats the only horse ive ever ridden my biggest scores were while riding a champion rouncey as a 1h. it is the easiest class if you cant see that then well there is no hope for you

Didn't say it was an easy class or not, just said you need to ride a real horse not a fairy 

[Osiris]

im not here to ask for cav changes just to say its so damn easy. cav should be the most powerful class. the only problem is when one team gets the majority of cav.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

im not here to ask for cav changes just to say its so damn easy. cav should be the most powerful class. the only problem is when one team gets the majority of cav.

I agree there, that when one team is cav stacked it is unfair but the same can be said when one team is range stacked, I'm not going to ask for changes NOR a buff. Personally now days I just accept the changes to cav, sure ill bitch about it for a while but I just accept it, Iv been playing cav since gen 2 so I have a fair amount of experience with the class as I'm sure tommy and Chagan do to.

I will say one thing though and baring In mind I have an alt for every class but HA, but personally I find being a 2her easier then cav but thats just me.

[San]

Cav simply gives you more options. Even medium skill cav like me can get a few kills on horse and then a few more on ground each round. It helps supplement my infantry game. There are not enough downsides to being dehorsed, especially from ranged. There were times when I simply got off my horse to beat an opponent that would have been much tougher on horse like a pikeman or a small group of ranged.

I do concede a little on what I used to say about cav vs infantry. 1v1 can be a huge pain for infantry, but heavy lance is a bit predictable. I think the regular lance is easier against most infantry and that's what I based a lot of my previous experiences around. I found heavy lance easier against stabby polearms (and much easier to couch), and regular lance better against every other infantry. I think anyone finding cav hard should try other lances like the regular lance or light lance to see what's good for them.

I think cav should go faster before knocking down someone, so that they have to choose between stabbing or knocking down an actively dodging opponent (among other obvious things like damage when dehorsed). It feels more rewarding to knock someone down as slow as possible instead of top speed, so you can turn into them easily.

[Gricks]

Cav simply gives you more options. Even medium skill cav like me can get a few kills on horse and then a few more on ground each round. It helps supplement my infantry game. There are not enough downsides to being dehorsed, especially from ranged. There were times when I simply got off my horse to beat an opponent that would have been much tougher on horse like a pikeman or a small group of ranged.

I do concede a little on what I used to say about cav vs infantry. 1v1 can be a huge pain for infantry, but heavy lance is a bit predictable. I think the regular lance is easier against most infantry and that's what I based a lot of my previous experiences around. I found heavy lance easier against stabby polearms (and much easier to couch), and regular lance better against every other infantry. I think anyone finding cav hard should try other lances like the regular lance or light lance to see what's good for them.

I think cav should go faster before knocking down someone, so that they have to choose between stabbing or knocking down an actively dodging opponent (among other obvious things like damage when dehorsed). It feels more rewarding to knock someone down as slow as possible instead of top speed, so you can turn into them easily.

Yeah, I hate when you do that against me on my pikeman.

But, back on topic. Right now a cavalry player is just as effective as any other infantry after he has been dehorsed. I think that is the main issue really.

A horse effectively gives a cav player 2 lives. Clearly a team with more cav players is going to win most of the time. Ranged and pikeman focus on the horse and a lot of the time the cav player is up before anyone can hit him (not to mention that aggravating bug when the dismounted rider isn't actually where you see him).

Now, as a pikeman, I'm fighting someone who has an advantage over me (if it is a duel). I either run away, pull some jump stab shenanigans, or die. Usually resulting in the cav player beginning his 2nd life.

Oh, and of course the tiny cavalry shields that give cavalry some sort of magical bubble of protection over their entire horse.

[Vkvkvk]

Yeah, I hate when you do that against me on my pikeman.

But, back on topic. Right now a cavalry player is just as effective as any other infantry after he has been dehorsed. I think that is the main issue really.

A horse effectively gives a cav player 2 lives. Clearly a team with more cav players is going to win most of the time. Ranged and pikeman focus on the horse and a lot of the time the cav player is up before anyone can hit him (not to mention that aggravating bug when the dismounted rider isn't actually where you see him).

Now, as a pikeman, I'm fighting someone who has an advantage over me (if it is a duel). I either run away, pull some jump stab shenanigans, or die. Usually resulting in the cav player beginning his 2nd life.

Forgot to mention that they can whistle and get a 3rd life and possibly more with the ease of only pressing 3 buttons.

They're like cats and their nine lives.

[bruce]

Two lives, but then you can whistle and get more horses, it doesn't compute. Are infantrymen dismounting to provide cavalrymen with extra horses? I don't understand.

[Bjord]

I rarely die from cav...

Maybe because you use a long spear?

 

[Tovi]

Historicaly, lance cavalry had a good chance to break after a shock. That's why knights need someone to carry 2 or 3 more lances.
We may simulate this by a 50% factor to break. That way you won't get the chance to break your lance on a poor peasant...

[HarunYahya]

Note: This text is very long, if you don’t want to read it, just don’t do that. But please stay away from this topic then, don’t post here, don’t troll here. I wrote this only for people who are interested in subject, if you are not, then just stay away.
English isn’t my native language, I know it from school only, but last English classes I had many years ago, so sorry in advance for any language mistakes.

Many people wrote a lot of things about cav recently. Unfortunately, most of their claims are lies. You can read opinions how easy mode lancer cav is, how good every newbie is as cav and how hard infantry life is with horseman around. Most of those people are of course cav experts, because “they played lancer for 5 minutes with their alts and they made 20:0 K/D ratio at lvl 10 with 0 PS, thanks to couching”. So I decided to write my feelings, how it is to be lancer cav, because with all those lies on forum, it’s really easy to get confused for people who never played this class longer than few days.

I’ll start from myself. I played almost every class in cRPG. I played a lot as archer, then few months as crossbowman, few months as infantry (many 2h swords, german poleaxe, great long axe, long war axe), another 2 months as mauler, I also checked thrower and 1h cav. I’m playing lancer cav for about 3 months here in cRPG. I also played as lancer in WFAS mod quite often, but there lances are 3.2 meters long (same as longest pikes), so you can’t really compare those 2 gameplays (in cRPG longest playable lance has 1.9 m). Yes, there are longer non-trustable lances here in cRPG, but they are basically useless for pure lancer.
I’m using heavy gear (Coat of Plates +3, Plate Mittens +3, Plate Boots +3, Sallet with Visor and Coif +3), so I’m very well protected (63 head armor, 68 body armor, 64 leg armor). My current horse is Destrier +3. As main weapon I’m using Heavy Lance +3, as secondary weapon (on the ground) Long War Axe +3. My max upkeep is 5644 gold, which is a lot, I’m losing about 10-20k gold for every hour of playing (but all depends here from my multi and luck). Even with x5 multi I don’t gain any money, so this class is costly, at least with heavy gear I’m using. You can ask why I’m using such a heavy gear. The answer is simple – I don’t want to be 1 hit-killed from ranged. With Light Kuyak +3 (which I used before), arbalester could kill me from just 1 bolt, thanks to speed of riding. And that’s something most people forgets. Many people who tests how hard is to kill a horse/rider forgets about speed factor. Horses aren’t stationary targets, you shouldn’t test anything this way!

From my experience, Destrier +3 charging target at full speed, close range, dies from:
- 1-2 bolts into head (1 bolt takes about 85-100% of its hp) – Arbalest +3, Steel Bolts +3
- 2-3 bolts into body (3 most of the time, but 2 bolts won’t leave much hp of the horse) – Arbalest +3, Steel Bolts +3
- 2-3 arrows into head (2 most of the time) – Long Bow/Rus Bow +3, Bodkin Arrows +3
- 4-5 arrows into body – Long Bow/Rus Bow +3, Bodkin Arrows +3
Destrier is average armored horse with quite a lot of HP. I played with Courser +3 and Arabian Warhorse +3 earlier, but it was much easier to kill them for enemy. Even from greater distance, just one bolt to their head, sometimes even one arrow was enough. That’s why I don’t play them anymore, it’s too easy to lose those horses. And if you lose your horse, most of the time you are dead, because very often you ends up alone near big group of enemies.

In cRPG lancer isn’t, like many people thinks, tanker who fears nothing except pikes. It’s not even close to that. Lancer is more like backstabbing class. You can kill unaware enemies from behind, and that’s where you are making most of your kills. About 75% of my kills are done this way. Another 25% are aware peasants, other horseman, aware ranged, and then aware infantry. Because of riding speed, cavalry takes down easiest targets after battle starts, that’s how you can make a lot of kills and make good K/D ratio (my current K/D ratio is 3.5:1, but this is reskilled char, so I didn’t have to level it). When you meet peasant on your way, you can even bump him to death. Some people says it’s lame to do that, but I saw many times few fully armored infantry chasing down peasant for few hundred meters and when they finally caught him, they starts to spam swings, often wounding themselves just to kill that peasant - somehow, this is completely fine in infantry minds. For me kill is kill. If I have a choice to couch unaware peasant or other unaware target, I’ll always choose the other target. But I don’t see a reason to abandon easy to kill targets (peasants) and leave them for others.
Like I said before, cav are backstabbers in cRPG. It’s not because cav is lazy, they are forced to do that because of how cRPG works. In fact lancer is weak class, which has low chances to kill aware opponent. That’s why hunting down unaware targets, which are close to no threat for you, perfectly makes sense here. Because of horse speed, we can choose our next target, leave harder ones and attack easiest. The “problem” is, when we kill easiest targets (make plenty of kills that way), infantry see cav topping scoreboard and starts to cry how OP cav is. You really shouldn’t judge class strength this way. If cav kills almost all peasants every round, it gives them few kills more in stats, and same time takes those easy kills from others.

Many people will ask then, how easy is to kill aware opponent for lancer? Well, it’s in fact very, very hard thing to do if the target won’t make any mistakes. There are 2 tricks which can help you to kill aware targets:
Trick1: you can force ready to strike opponent to release left mouse button too early/too late by controlling your horse speed, Arabian Warhorse is far best horse to use this trick. Other horses I tried feels a bit too “heavy” to benefit from this trick.
Trick2: you can try to hit enemy at max possible lance angle, turning just in front of him, but this is very risky (you need to be millimeter precise) and it works mainly with standing targets (or moving forward, but it’s harder to get it right even then). If you miss your target this way because you turned too fast and have now too little lance angle (very, very often it ends up like that), enemy will most of the time hit your horse to the side/back, but you can ride away. If you turn too late, then enemy will hit your horse’s head and stop it (or deal huge damage to it). Then you are basically screwed, so it’s always better to turn a bit quicker and miss than too late and die. This trick needs perfect timing and even then don’t guarantee success.

Killing peasant: you need to watch peasant weapon here. If he uses Pitchfork or Scythe, he can still wound/kill your horse easily, no matter he is a peasant! But even if he uses one of those weapons, you can try using Trick2 here. If you turn too late and he stops your horse, you can still kill him with your lance. Peasant is a target always worth a risk (you won’t find aware opponent which is easier to kill than a peasant). If peasant uses some 1h weapon, I’m charging it straight away with regular lance attack ready. But you can kill peasant even with 1-2 bumps, you don’t really need to lance him.
My advice: Charge!

Killing horse lancer: I can say obvious thing here. It’s risky! In my opinion too risky to do it after game starts. Hits are based by what server sees, not what you sees, so because of closing horses speed, sometimes I see I did everything perfectly, but server says that enemy just killed me, which is a bit depressing. I can still kill more lancers than I dies this way, but even with 60:40 ratio, it’s just too risky for me. So I’m trying to avoid other lancers, especially at the beginning of the round. I have plenty easier targets on the ground to take care of in this time.
My advice: Avoid if you can!

Killing 1h horseman: you need to use couch here and take down their horses. If they are aware of you and manage to stop your horse, there is nothing you can do. In close combat you are sitting duck for them! You can block their swings, but they will still hit your horse and eventually kill it through your blocks. They can sometimes kill your horse from just one Arabian Cavalry Sword’s swing to your horse’s head. Because of their shields forcefield, you can’t kill them from frontal attack or from the side. Sometimes those shields can even protect them from a lance into their back, which is a just silly. It’s better to avoid them if they are aware of you, if not, use couch and try to hit horse from side. In worst case scenario you will destroy their shield, but should be able to run away. Regular lance attack will most likely end up at their shield, making them no harm at all. Fortunately there are not that many good 1h cav (at least on EU servers). You can try to attack aware 1h cav which uses low turning speed horses, but avoid Arabian Warhorses! They turns too quickly, you won’t be able to ride away before they hit you back.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing pikeman/long spearman: basically impossible. I managed to kill few of them only because they didn’t release left mouse button in time. This is the only way to kill them, their own, huge mistake. Surprisingly, they don’t do much damage to horses most of the time. You can sometimes lose just 1/3rd of your horse hp by being stopped by pikeman, and then just ride away (many depends here from yours and pikeman position). You have to avoid them of course, especially if they have some regular infantry near them – pikeman will stop your horse, and regular infantry will finish you quickly.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing short spear/lancer on the ground: very hard to do. It’s possible, but target need to release left mouse button too soon (and bounce or miss) or too late. You can use here Trick1 and Trick2, but it’s very risky stuff which will almost always end up with your death, especially if enemy jump while making attack. It’s just no sense to risk if the guy isn’t last man standing.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing 2h swordsman: it’s very similar to killing short spear/lancer on the ground, very hard to do. But in fact, two handed swords are even more deadly (because of damage they deal and their thrust range). If 2h swordsman is standing still or moving forward, you can try to use Trick2, but most of them jumps/move sideways. Then I assure you, almost always you won’t be able to react/predict things right and you will easily die. So, it’s possible to kill 2h swordsman (at least stationary ones), but there is little chance to do everything exactly right, and you still need a lot of luck – better avoid them as much as you can. I can’t really understand how 2h swordsman can be more deadly to horses than even pikeman.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing poleaxe user: surprisingly (or maybe not?), it’s easier to kill poleaxe user who tries to stab than 2h swordsman. Their weapons has shorter stabs, so you can use Trick2 with a bit higher success rate (you can be slightly less precise with timing and still win). Unfortunately, they can also jump to the side and attack opposite direction same time, and because of weapon length and it’s damage, this attack can be deadly. Similar as with 2h swordsman, if poleaxe player jump, you probably won’t be able to react/predict things right and you will die. That’s why it’s very risky and not worth trying to kill poleaxe user if you have other (easier or unaware) targets alive.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing axe user/mauler (no thrust weapon user): it’s risky, as he can jump to side and make opposite swing same time, but you can use your horse as weapon and increase your chances. If you guess right the side of his jump, you can kill him, if you was close to guess you will most likely bump him. If you won’t bump or hit him, you are most likely dead (those weapons are deadly with 47-48 damage and speed bonus from your horse). It’s so much easier here to kill heavy armored targets (like maulers). I often risk couch when I see heavy armor + non thrusting weapon. If target has light armor, it’s better to leave it. Especially couching light armored target will almost always be deadly for rider, even if his weapon don’t have thrust attack.
My advice: Charge only heavily armored ones!

Killing 1h shielder: very similar to killing non thrustable weapon user, but it has a bit less risk involved (shorter weapons than axes). You need to get ready for your target jump to the side and make attack from opposite direction (they do that most of the time). And again you have to choose side right. If you won’t guess right, you can die here. He can also use thrust, so it’s better not to charge him directly with your horse. If you charge in right way, shielder most of the time won’t be able to thrust your horse’s head. It’s easier for shielder to kill you by jump/sidewalk and make swing same time, that’s the thing you need to be aware of. If they just jump and block with their shields, I’m often trying to couch them and break their shield in next attack. But because of jumping height and sidewalking speed, couching is always much more risky to try, even against shielder.
My advice: Charge mainly heavily armored ones!

Killing crossbowman: if crossbowman is aware of you, it’s better to just leave him alone. If you decide to charge him, you need to wave your horse a bit and try to force his mistake. If he miss you, you will most likely kill him. If he hit your horse’s head, horse will probably die (if not, you will probably kill crossbowman), if he hit you, your attack will be cancelled, and you will lose most of your hp (or if you use light armor, you will be dead, because of speed of the horse). It’s risky stuff, more time you give for crossbowman to aim you, more likely you will lose this little battle. If I want to attack some crossbowman, I’m always waiting for him to shoot other target, then I can charge during his reloading time. They most of the time will spot me then (they are checking terrain while reloading), so they will try to change weapon to melee – that’s why it’s worth to try couched attack here. Even if they change weapon, you can still kill them through their block (if you only guess their jumping side right). Everything depends here from distance and moment when crossbowman spot you.
My advice: Avoid!

Killing archer: it’s sometimes easier than killing crossbowman. Archer has advantage in rate of fire, but he won’t be able to kill your horse with just 1 arrow, and can’t hold his bow ready to shot forever. You need to be ready to take at least 2 arrows into yourself/your horse (hopefully not your or your horse’s head). That means, it’s no sense to attack archer if you, or especially your horse has low hp. With latest horses maneuver nerf, you won’t be able to do much in close combat with archer (archer moves faster than your horse turns at the moment). Maybe Arabian Warhorse would still be good enough in this kind of fight, I don’t know, I sold my Arabian Warhorse +3 long time ago. I only know, Destrier is now too slow in turning speed to kill experienced archer this way (you could do that easily before horses turning nerf). The problem is, because of instantly changing direction of running, sidewalking, jumping (every problem cRPG physics has), archers will most likely just jump to the side to avoid your horse and start shooting at it again. I’m quite good in guessing their jump direction (I’m lucky I should say), so many targets I kill are archers. But for every attack on aware archer, you have to pay with some of your and your horse’s hp. It’s always costly to attack archers.
My advice: Avoid those with Long Bows/Rus Bows! Charge the other!

Killing throwers: aware high PT thrower means death for you and your horse. High PT thrower can kill your horse very easily, from just 1 head hit. And when they throw their axe/javelin/lance, another one magically appears in their hand to repeat the attack straight away. It’s just suicide to attack them, avoid even if they look in opposite direction! You can however attack low PT throwers, they aren’t much of a threat. After some time of playing, I can recognize players (by their armors), so more or less I know which throwers I have to avoid like a fire (I learned it hard way). Fortunately, there aren’t many high PT throwers in game currently.
My advice: Avoid high PT throwers! Charge low PT throwers!

Killing horse archers/horse crossbowmans: terrible! I can’t understand why horse archers has same maneuver as other horsemans (they should have decreased maneuver drastically, especially when they are shooting and riding same time). Because of that you will most likely end up with your horse full of arrows. Maybe they don’t do much damage, but they can still kill your horse with 6-8 arrows (or 3-4 into your horse’s head), and you won’t be able to do anything to avoid them. It’s worst thing to have horse archer on your back and no possible help from your team. You can kill horse archer only when he uses horse +0 (has maneuver and speed disadvantage) or if he make mistake and judge things wrong. But before he do that, your horse will have no hp anyway. It’s better to avoid aware horse archers as much as you can. Horse crossbowmans are easier targets (mainly due to reloading time), but it’s still better not to attack aware ones, especially if they use Arabian Warhorses +3 or Coursers +3. They can ride away pretty easily, and you don’t really want to play chasing game with them, since they can hit you from range and not slow down even a bit.
My advice: Avoid!

It will be even harder to kill anyone, who stands on little hill or terrain around him isn’t completely flat. You will have big problem to predict speed of your horse, and since you have to release Heavy Lance sooner (Heavy Lance attack speed is very slow), you can completely miss the enemy. It’s better to avoid aware enemies standing on changeable terrain.

So, it’s not that easy to kill aware opponent. In fact you have more chances than the enemy only while killing aware peasants and low athletics, heavily armored shielders. With axemans and great maulers (only slow ones, with heavy armor) chances are pretty even, maybe just slightly higher for horseman. That’s why you will end up most of the time backstabbing unaware opponents. If infantry want to get rid of backstabbing, then make horses actually smash every infantry easily (except pikemans). But right now backstabbing is only option to get kills, and no matter what you think, backstabbing is funny. I’m all the time trying to plan my attacks carefully, sometimes it don’t go well, but most of the time I can kill 1-2 people from behind and disappears quickly. It makes me happy and I don’t really understand infantry whining and offending cav players all the time about that. Just think about every infantry who kills someone from behind / from side / in group (by being unfair). Those things happens all the time in cRPG, infantry do this all day long, it’s a battle after all, not duel. So how can cav backstabbing be different than infantry ones? Cav is forced to play like that much more often, choosing weakest targets, attacking from behind. I know couch from behind is annoying, but you can use tilde key (~) to prevent that, it’s so amazing key – maybe you should just use it more often? Or maybe don’t, because then lancer will be able to kill only peasants (pretty easily only those without pitchfork and scythe in their hands).

Cav is also a class which is very dependent from map itself. Many maps are almost completely unplayable for cav (towns with little corridors). Huge, open space maps aren’t best for cav either (it’s hard to do backstabbing job there, you are clearly visible for everyone from huge distance). Big hills makes cav useless, houses where ranged can go at are deadly for cav. It’s the only class which is affected by terrain that much, it’s just huge disadvantage for cav. Even little, but steep hill will cause horse to almost completely stop on it.

And you can’t forget horse is such a huge target for ranged. You can predict horse path pretty well, since horses can’t change movement direction like infantry (sidewalking and changing direction of movement in the blink of an eye to avoid ranged is normal thing for infantry, horses can’t do this).

Lance damage was nerfed so many times, right now at full speed of Destrier +3, regular Heavy Lance attack sometimes don’t kill even low armored archer by 1 hit. Couching is the best way to kill your target (9/10 couches kills enemy instantly), but same time it’s much more risky than regular attack. Even unaware opponent can move slightly just before your attack and you can miss him with couch, you need to be so precise with your horse positioning while couching. Killing aware opponent with couch often means suicide. Couching attack has much shorter length than regular one, so enemy will most likely outreach you easily. But sometimes it’s the only way to kill your enemy, since regular attack can be blocked with simple holding downblock. No matter what speed you riding at and what part of enemy you aim (head, body, legs), your regular attack can always be very easily blocked or easily chambered.

What could be better in my opinion?
For me, the most annoying and unpredictable thing is jumping. Jumping and attacking same time makes no sense, it has no logic at all. Players can jump 1 meter up and about 1.5 meters to one side in any moment they want, and still same time they make attack with its full power. Like side walking wasn’t already broken, they can jump like a monkeys in cRPG too. It’s just completely broken mechanism. You should be able to jump only about 20 cm up and about 50 cm to the side unarmored, of course no jumping at all with heavy armor. When you jump, you shouldn’t be able to make attack same time. Then seeing jumping people won’t make you feel like we are playing some space monkeys multi-tasking game.

Pikes should be much more deadly to horses in cRPG. Pikemans aren’t much of a threat in terms of damage they deal to horses, they only have range. If pike stop your horse riding straight into it at full speed, it should kill the horse instantly. Right now pikes are more effective killing people on the ground than horses. I see no logic in that, pikes should do very heavy damage to horses, it should be the best anti-horses weapon. Right now even if I make a mistake and pikeman stop my horse, I’ll just turn a little and move the other direction with half horse’s hp left (sometimes even more, depending from horse speed). At the moment it’s so much better to be stopped by pikeman than poleaxer or especially hit by 2h swordsman (this one is deadly). I would love to see pikemans as proper horse killers, and regular infantry as easy targets for cav.
But I’m sure, infantry would whine then even more. I don’t really understand why they cry now. Most of them have huge advantage fighting lancer already, they just need to be aware of him. It’s not true without pikes they can’t do anything against cav. Pikes are good weapons only to stop horses. Many other weapons are much better to actually kill horses and/or their riders.

Yes.
I couldn't resist quoting that. :3

[Angellore]

I couldn't resist quoting that. :3

My first post shows how I feel playing lancer, something people won't understand without playing this class for at least few months to see its strengths and weaknesses. Everyone just talks about main strength of lancers, which is killing unaware people easily. I tried to change this kind of thinking with this topic, but I see now I failed massively. This topic turned into discussion to nerf cav and another claims (mainly by infantry) how easy it is to be a lancer.

Some people just don't care about the truth, they knows everything better. For me, it’s pretty funny that people who never played cav (at least no longer than few days), talks as cav experts on this forum and wants to "balance" cav. It’s something I can’t really understand.

I played almost every class in this game, and I think everyone should do that. I'm not talking about few days of playing, I’m talking about 2-3 generations. It really helps you to understand classes, their advantages and disadvantages. This is long and hard way, but it will definitely make you better player.

Before lancer I played about 2 months as Full Plate Great Mauler, which is one of the easiest targets for lancer (very slow, predictable), and I never cried about cav. But back then many people cried about maulers (how easily I top scoreboard with this class and how unskilled it is). I saw here dozens of topics to nerf mauls, but there were few people who didn't cry. Dalhi was one of them, he knew how to fight me, he could kill me much more often that I could kill him. Instead of crying, he decided to learn to fight mauler, and he did that brilliantly. There is easy way to beat Full Plate Great Mauler, but almost all players preferred to cry for nerf instead of learning it. And now it's similar with cav - it's easier to cry for nerf on the forum then use tilde key. You should be thankful for having such a wonderful and unrealistic key, but instead you… don’t use it.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

My first post shows how I feel playing lancer, something people won't understand without playing this class for at least few months to see its strengths and weaknesses. Everyone just talks about main strength of lancers, which is killing unaware people easily. I tried to change this kind of thinking with this topic, but I see now I failed massively. This topic turned into discussion to nerf cav and another claims (mainly by infantry) how easy it is to be a lancer.

Some people just don't care about the truth, they knows everything better. For me, it’s pretty funny that people who never played cav (at least no longer than few days), talks as cav experts on this forum and wants to "balance" cav. It’s something I can’t really understand.

I played almost every class in this game, and I think everyone should do that. I'm not talking about few days of playing, I’m talking about 2-3 generations. It really helps you to understand classes, their advantages and disadvantages. This is long and hard way, but it will definitely make you better player.

what makes me laugh is that although this make sense, the amount of inf players who will claim "I played cav more then a few days" meaning a week or two yet they still don't get it, seriously if people actually played every class for a few gens the amount of nerfs that go around would be reduced by a good amount. But lets face facts no matter how much sense you make people will just say "I know what im talking about I did it.....once......for a little while..." and nothing will change sadly 

Yeah, I hate when you do that against me on my pikeman.

But, back on topic. Right now a cavalry player is just as effective as any other infantry after he has been dehorsed. I think that is the main issue really.

A horse effectively gives a cav player 2 lives. Clearly a team with more cav players is going to win most of the time. Ranged and pikeman focus on the horse and a lot of the time the cav player is up before anyone can hit him (not to mention that aggravating bug when the dismounted rider isn't actually where you see him).

Now, as a pikeman, I'm fighting someone who has an advantage over me (if it is a duel). I either run away, pull some jump stab shenanigans, or die. Usually resulting in the cav player beginning his 2nd life.

Oh, and of course the tiny cavalry shields that give cavalry some sort of magical bubble of protection over their entire horse.

1) Just because someone rides a horse doesn't mean that they should suck on foot, there are plenty of cav players that practice on foot and have inf alts so how its a problem that if I lose my horse and am a fairly good inf how that's the "main issue" on how cavs unbalanced

2) there have been plenty of times were I have been dehorsed and killed before Iv even gone to stand thanks to "gang bangs" other times yes I stand up and fight, the bug were you look like you slide forward but don't Ill agree that must be annoying as hell. But when our horses die its not exactly like we have died and spawned again..... chances are that before they were dehorsed they had been shot and stabbed by other people so I doubt their on full health.

3) If you play a pikeman why the hell are you dueling people?!?!? yeah if its a cav fair enough I guess but at the end of the day your a SUPPORT class not a head on fighter, your job should be to keep enemy cav at bay and to poke and harass the enemy inf while your own inf fight them. Also if you are dueling a horseman, quick question......WHY THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO RUN YOU HAVE A PIKE NO SANE CAV IS GOING NEAR YOU! (sry caps  ) second if you do dehorse him then, and bearing in mind iv seen pikers do this you jump and stab them then pull out your secondary weapon just like they will? using a pike to fight normal inf is just stupid (no offense)

4) yeah the fact that cavs shields cover most of the horse is total bs and iv had it before were I have stabbed a cav in the back yet he still blocked it because he was slightly turned towards me, that really needs to be sorted out