New Multi System will need ASSISTS

[Smoothrich]

I really like the system of score tracking and notifications for assists that happen on Rageball now, though I think sometimes it can crowd the screen too much showing what everyone is doing.

After playing with all these great additions though, I had an idea that's been mentioned a few times in this thread, and I do think is really good.  To supplement whatever the team reward will be for winning (which I think should still be the primary method of experience gain), along with proximity kills (something I honestly don't like very much at all)  it would be fantastic if the devs implemented situational, objective/support based rewards, especially if the kill log notified you (and only you!) of what you did.  And to have all of these little bonuses go into a pool called "points" like in TF2 I guess or similar games, that would at the end be converted into round/map bonus experience.  This should be the reward for individual play, instead of going by kills.  Cuz goddamn, I power level fast enough rolling multis when I am a cav player, that would just make it aggressively more imbalanced.

For example, a buff to objective play on siege would be getting a few extra points when you kill an attacker who was capturing the flag, or vice versa.  Wall defenders/attackers would get proximity experience, and flag defenders/attackers would get these, keeping things in parity if possible and balancing the gametype.  And it won't be so awful of a feeling to defend the flag in an epic back and forth for the last 2 minutes, only to lose, cuz of all the points you'd have gotten.

There's probably a million things you could think of for the battle servers, but a few examples would be dehorsing a cavalry player, headshots, support damage, going on a killstreak in a short time period, inflicting most overall damage (maybe not, because ya, cav lol), maybe even saving teammates about to die if that was possible.  If this stuff could be tracked live on the server, I have no idea if it does this or not just know that you guys can pull out the stats to evaluate balance (while ignoring NA), everything should definitely be reduced for cav players to compensate for their speed bonuses and overall cheesy OP gimmick style of play.

You guys definitely need to be very careful if you decide to go with proximity death EXP, as it can be fun to watch it go up all round and all and people can say it "rewards teamwork" but honestly all the maps and matches from that era more often then not deevolved into gimmick exp grind camping of awful places in maps or just bad maps in general (exp bridge, exp barn for quick examples), devalues skirmishing or cavalry player's points compared to their contribution, and just never really seemed that good to me to begin with.  Either do it globally (or close enough) or not at all.

[Kajia]

points will never make a good excuse to play a game, it will always corrupt the players behavior (as well as money is not a natural incentive to work, duh).

I don't want to play for k/d, nor would I really want to play for assist points, even if I'd get more of them compared to my kill now. instead I would love to play for fun, that I have with some good teamplay and funny people who also don't play for sheer killing. I hate if on any server the main reason for rage is the mindless kill-whoring mindset of about 40% to 60% of the players. most of the time it doesn't even help the team!
I know that the definition of fun is very diverse, everyone has his own. and that's exactly the reason why killing/assists should not be rewarded! I strongly believe people would change their attitude towards mindless killing if the rewards would be dropped completely!

XP could be gained like the skill-development solution in EVE, where you can pick a skill and it will increase based on real-time. I found this system very out-of-the-box and satisfying. why not make our XP-bar rise constantly, for one character at a time, for example? why not?

and I really don't care about people who say: "but you have to gain something for your effort!"
I'm very sure that most of us play this game because of other people, not for the game itself or some abstract numbers! and IF you do, ask yourself: why? isn't it weird?

I don't want my team-play effort put into a straitjacket. having numbers on everything and every action in REAL-life is bad enough.


edit:
real honest effort doesn't need an external reward.
read wikipedia on overjustification

people pay more attention to the external reward for an activity than to the inherent enjoyment and satisfaction received from the activity itself.

[Banok]

would also be nice to see a damage score, I wonder which classes we would see at the top ;)

score = damage done to enemies - (damage done to allies *2)

ofc damage to un mounted horses shouldn't count ;p

Conquest.

+10

[Micah]

points will never make a good excuse to play a game, it will always corrupt the players behavior (as well as money is not a natural incentive to work, duh).

I don't want to play for k/d, nor would I really want to play for assist points, even if I'd get more of them compared to my kill now. instead I would love to play for fun, that I have with some good teamplay and funny people who also don't play for sheer killing. I hate if on any server the main reason for rage is the mindless kill-whoring mindset of about 40% to 60% of the players. most of the time it doesn't even help the team!
I know that the definition of fun is very diverse, everyone has his own. and that's exactly the reason why killing/assists should not be rewarded! I strongly believe people would change their attitude towards mindless killing if the rewards would be dropped completely!

XP could be gained like the skill-development solution in EVE, where you can pick a skill and it will increase based on real-time. I found this system very out-of-the-box and satisfying. why not make our XP-bar rise constantly, for one character at a time, for example? why not?

and I really don't care about people who say: "but you have to gain something for your effort!"
I'm very sure that most of us play this game because of other people, not for the game itself or some abstract numbers! and IF you do, ask yourself: why? isn't it weird?

I don't want my team-play effort put into a straitjacket. having numbers on everything and every action in REAL-life is bad enough.


edit:
real honest effort doesn't need an external reward.
read wikipedia on overjustification

^this

(click to show/hide)

k/d and also dealt damage does not tell much about good teamplay and play style ! if damage was displayed in scoreboard instead of kills, k/d whores would simply turn into dmg whores thats all... the same goes for any , even most sophisticated contribution accounting system ... whoring will always be around as long as any kind of scoreboard exists, its part of the design as long as its there ...and  me and you need to admit that its part of  ourselfs as long its there ( i posted a call for removing scoreboard the other day which was smashed down as soon as it appeared in the forum )

the raw consequence is that - regardless the arguments brought up  here - players appearently want the official rewarding concept telling how "well" they did in battle, so everyone knows, which leads to the current paradox discussion

2 questions appear:
1) is there a way to make a perfect contribution scoreboard that tells how "well" a player did in a mmo (edit: tdm/fps) game
    -- no! it is not possible since there are to many factors that would need to be taken into account , as well as it would be a very subjective interpretation  .. about decisionmaking and style, wich would lead to huge discussions in forum about the goods and bads from the automatized contribution accounting algorythm w/e
2) do we need it
  -- very philosophical question .. a matter of taste .. and a call to break very common habbit for any tdm game  ..

edit: oh i  forgot about the xp gain on contribution base (aka assists and whatshoever) which is basically the "perfect" scoreboard concept legitimizing xp gain ..... well same questions sane answers

[Elindor]

amazing how many votes this has gotten...

[KaffeKalle]

As long as I dont get 4-5 times less xp and, more importantly gold than the clans who go on a siegeserver and Xp-farm for hours I will be happy with whatever new xp-system is put in place. Actually losing money running around in gear worth 30k total...

[Farrix]

Ok, Haven't read all these other posts but I love the idea of adding assists and wanted to contribute my thoughts on where chadz and this mod could go.

So we basically are talking about making a different way of rewarding XP/gold. We need to take the stats we do keep track of: Kills/Deaths, and add a value to them. We need to keep track and display additional stats and add a value to them. At the end of a round, the system would have a number for each player. Additional statistics to keep track of could include: Damage (given and received), Headshots for the ranged fella's, Couches for cavalry, and Assists (would have to be a derivative of the damage done and time elapsed until the kill, possibly bring distance into the equation), Team kills, and Team wounds.

Dg=damage given Dr=damage received H=headshots C=couches A=assists K=kills D=deaths Tk=team kills Tw=team wound

(K+Dg+H+C+A)-(Dr+D+Tk+Tw)= A value that can translate into gold or xp.

What could really be cool about adding multiple new statistics would be how we could utilize generations. I'm gen 8 right now I think and what I'm imagining with a new system would be to take those 8 gens and they would translate into 7 points, similar to heirloom points. You can see on my equation above that there are 5 positive statistics, and 4 negative statistics. These seven points from retiring that I would have accumulated could then be applied as multipliers to any one of those 5 positive stats. Here's the kicker though, for each positive multiplier you add, you'd have to add one to the 4 negative stats. You could also make exp and gold distributed separately, meaning that your gen multipliers I've been discussing could be applied to the recorded statistics resulting in either gold or experience. You would still receive both but you would be able to dictate which is a higher priority for you. Imagine being able to look on the site and see all your accumulated stats from a gen and create for yourself, how you want to receive your exp, your gold. This could allow you to create exactly the type of character you play, and to be rewarded according to how well you play your class.

I'd like ya'll to consider this. If the fundamental idea is good, please say so and proceed to discuss what these values for new stats could be and which statistics we should include.

Edit: I was just thinking that this idea may leave peasants out to dry in the first few levels. If we added a proximity based value for enemy deaths that you couldn't add a multiplier to, that was a minimal value, enough to get peasants through the first 10 levels, it would fix this problem.

[Gawin]

Capture the Flag? But we tried that, and pure speed builds were a bitch

[Bryggan]

I think it's stupid to punish early deaths or just getting wounded.  Somebody has to be the first on the ladder or the one pushing through the choke point.  And if I lose gold and exp just because of a well placed headshot, I'll write a 'nerf archer' post immediately, and I never want to nerf archers.

So a system that rewards the guys who already got it all- ie heirloomed gear plus thousands of hours play that make them the masters that they are- is not very encouraging for new or average, or just plain crap players.  We don't mind being fodder, but being useless is punishment enough, and we don't need any penalties on top of our shame.

I think we should do like single-player, and use the above calculations (not including death or wounds, don't want everyone turtling; that's my specialty) for Renown.  Renown doesn't help you in battle, but impresses the shit out of your friends and strikes fear in the heart of your enemies.  Ooh, it would be nice if the renown thing took the level of the person you killed into account.  Then peasant chasers won't be the heroes they pretend to be.

[Farrix]

So your solution for chadz talking about how to fix the distribution of exp and gold is to introduce renown, which apparently changes nothing about exp/gold. So then what is your solution for spreading the exp and gold?

[dreadnok]

Why would archers be less useful? They can support the attack on a flag or can stand next to it and defend it by already picking the enemy over range.

And cavalry can only take a flag if there is no enemy cavalry nearby, and if they have cover from enemy archers. Otherwise no, they can't.

And it's not only about conquering a flag, you must hold it a certain time. No, I don't think cavalry can decide this on its own.

I dont know. But i do know that the op was referring to siege. Why worrying bout cav on siege is goofy.

[Joker86]

I dont know. But i do know that the op was referring to siege. Why worrying bout cav on siege is goofy.

Where do you read that he was referring to siege? 

[Micah]

whats with peasants ?

[Elindor]

dread im not referring to anything except the quote from chadz....
what he was referring to I do not know, but I assume ALL game modes since he did not specify.

[Elindor]

damn 158 votes....

maybe devs have seen this by now?