Shielder popularity

[Vodner]

The more shielders the better the game would look and feel, imo. Looks more realistic (than a bunch of kuyak clones with 2h), fights last longer, less random deaths, lets teams do nice looking but mostly useless shield walls etc.
I think it'd make much more sense if the majority of infantry were shielders with some 2h and polearm players.

That would be great if shield vs shield combat wasn't dull. I still wish shields had a manual blocking system, where they would take no damage on successful blocks, but would break after 2-5 misses (dependent on victim shield and attacker weapon).

[Gravoth_iii]

That would be great if shield vs shield combat wasn't dull. I still wish shields had a manual blocking system, where they would take no damage on successful blocks, but would break after 2-5 misses (dependent on victim shield and attacker weapon).

Shield vs shield is dull, but i guess bringing an axe secondary will help.

[Zanze]

That would be great if shield vs shield combat wasn't dull. I still wish shields had a manual blocking system, where they would take no damage on successful blocks, but would break after 2-5 misses (dependent on victim shield and attacker weapon).

Stop playing tennis with the enemy. Try feints and holds, they work just as well against shielders. If you fail at it, or just want to laugh in another shielder's face bring an axe as a sidearm or man up and use it as a main weapon.

[Vodner]

Try feints and holds, they work just as well against shielders.

Very rarely do they work against good shielders (ManO, San, etc). The only time I really fell for them was when I was playing too aggressively / greedy (I usually put my shield away 1v1 anyways though, since it makes for a far more entertaining fight).

If you fail at it, or just want to laugh in another shielder's face bring an axe as a sidearm or man up and use it as a main weapon.

The nice thing about adding blocking, is that a good shielder would actually be able to hold up under an axe indefinitely. A poor one would have his shield break nearly instantly versus an axe, and still fairly quickly versus a sword. Then, he would die. As it stands right now, your only option is to put your shield away versus a decent opponent with a shield breaker.

Adding blocking would make good shielders better, and make bad ones worse.

[San]

I'm still torn about that idea, Saul. Is there any way it can help in group fights? If a shield breaks too quickly in those moments where you can't tell when an opponent will swing from multiple directions, it may end up devaluing the shield. It sounds interesting, but I still can't help but feel that putting the shield away is still a better alternative in those 1v1 situations. It could help immensely with 1v1 situations when the enemy has archer support.

EDIT: *sees offline* For a later time, then.

[Vodner]

I'm still torn about that idea, Saul. Is there any way it can help in group fights?

Ideally something like a steel plated shield would still be able to hold up to a good 4-5 misses before breaking (assuming no shield breakers). That, mixed with still being able to make most of your blocks (even in Nv1 scenarios) would keep it alive for a long time.

Shield blocking speed would have to be somewhat increased.

[Lemmy_Winks]

Stop playing tennis with the enemy. Try feints and holds, they work just as well against shielders. If you fail at it, or just want to laugh in another shielder's face bring an axe as a sidearm or man up and use it as a main weapon.

You have to be really bad to get hit by a feint with a sheild. Dont swing until you hear the sheild get hit its simple. To lose to someone whose a 2h with a sheild you have to be signifcantly worse in melle than they are, considering most shield users are pretty bad in melee its not a huge problem but if any more decent players than the few good ones who use sheild already take it up itl be apprent how easy the build is. Sheild is undoubtedly the best 1 vs 1 and 1 vs many fighting class. 2h is really only better in getting the killing blow.

[Digglez]

shields are more attractive now that half the bullshit shenanigans that killed them are gone.

[oohillac]

shields are more attractive now that half the bullshit shenanigans that killed them are gone.

Very true.  Spinstabs were the bane of the shielder.

[Bryggan]

First of all, I was thrower/shielder long before it was cool.  As a casual and quite useless player, I hate the idea of manual shield blocking.  Not everyone is the greatest at twitch style games, and if everything was too hard you won't get many new players.

I will agree that shielder duels are boring, which is why if you go to duel server it's all 2 handers there.  But in battle its a little different.  2 shielders start fighting, take forever, then another guy shows up and stabs one guy in the head; end of duel.  Or a shielder notices a friendly archer nearby, he tries turning the enemy's back to the archer to give him the easy kill.  Like Marathon said, it's all about teamwork and different classes working together.  Makes the game a lot more interesting.

Shame about the shieldwall though.  It does look cool, but totally ineffective.  Standing there stopping arrows doesn't earn victories.  I think people gotta learn to advance quickly in a shieldwall, covering 2 handers and polearms till they get close to the enemy.  Can't see that happen cuz rule #1 is when you spawn run as fast as you can enemy-ward.  Not sure why that is.

[naked_mike]

I never really understood the shielder hate.  Just think of them as really pro manual blockers; change up your timing is the most efficient way to take them down.  Only the noobs completely turtle, and if they do, so what?  Leave them and move onto the next target.

I believe carrying a shield, even if you're a dedicated pole/2hander, is just plain smart.  Lots of arrows, bolts, rocks, and darts getting tossed around.

[Kafein]

Dextta you should create a Predator-Prey formula and model to represent the shifting changes in class populations.

5 body Lotka-Volterra booyah

[Vingnir the Wanderer]

To those saying S&B vs S&B is boring, and think shield walls would be cool if they served a purpose, hear me out on my '2 birds with one stone' idea, that would make S&B vs S&B fighting and shield walls both relevant and fun:

Want more and battle effective shield walls?  First -yeah, learn to advance in them, and make battle maps with absolute choke points/narrow fighting corridors -10-15 men wide perhaps?

AND

This is a perfect argument for shield bash!  Make shield bash a reality, and the only significant counter other than kick? -THE SHIELD WALL! (make it so that when you get the shield wall + bonus, you also gain percent bonus to cancel the opponents shield bash against said shield wall, and possible immunity to kick as well)

Thus in the aforementioned narrow corridor, you stop the individual advancing shield bashers with a shield wall, which may result in either an advance of the wall, a defense of the wall, or counter shield walls forming in reaction, with ranged thrown into a stand-off.

-you know, like a traditional battle line, that seems to be how they actually did it irl.

???

Just thinkin outloud. Even without the 'narrow corridor' style maps these ideas may work really well if tried.

[ZigZag]

I reckon it has something to do with the new banners.

People like to show off their "clan pride" with the banners on their shields. 



Sometimes all it takes are a few new stylish looks to motivate people to play a certain build instead of another.

[Malaclypse]

I've had at least 3-4 points of shield in every one of my past six or seven generations, even when I'm not actively using a shield; it's just too much of a utility to not have points invested into, in my opinion. Works with the two-hand bastard weapons, hoplite style polearms, and one-handed weapons, to boot. Makes playing in any Strategus battle that much more bearable to at least have the option of carrying an omniblock for range and line formation.