Author Topic: Shielder popularity  (Read 6002 times)

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Offline Penitent

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Shielder popularity
« on: June 28, 2012, 05:02:19 pm »
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Shield users are become more and more popular (on NA at least).  I see lots of them in the servers, and many trades on the marketplace forum are for turning in armor/bows/poles/etc for 1h and shield gear.

This thread is just to discuss possible reasons why.  Do you think there was an increase in ranged and now people are taking shields to compensate?  Are people just bored with their 2h/pole characters and they are now rolling alts?

Do you think its a phase or here to stay?  Has anyone else noticed?
Discuss

Offline Miwiw

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 05:06:05 pm »
+2
Shielders dont have to block manually, therefore they can at least enjoy 1 thing. Of course the class isnt easy because of that as they have to look out for the attack timing to get a good hit in.
I wouldnt complain about too many shielders, I actually see it as normal that everyone uses a shield.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 05:08:40 pm »
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Shielders dont have to block manually, therefore they can at least enjoy 1 thing. Of course the class isnt easy because of that as they have to look out for the attack timing to get a good hit in.
I wouldnt complain about too many shielders, I actually see it as normal that everyone uses a shield.

Yes they do have advantages and disadvantages.  I don't think it's a good or bad thing personally.  I use a shield primarily, and I have to say it is a bit harder to fight another shielder (takes longer) unless you have an axe. 

I predict a surge in 'shieldbreaker' weapon popularity soon on the market and in game. :)

Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 05:32:33 pm »
+9
Warning wall of text. Just pick a paragraph

What I've noticed over the years is that classes move in "seasons"

From my experience in cRPG (at the time of my joining this mod, Oct-ish 2010), it was shielder central. If you didn't have a shield, you got shot. This was the phasing out of the archer era.

From what I've seen it's been

archers > shielders > horses > polearms > 2h > archers/ranged > crossbowery (the age of the Chaos Operators) > horse archers + crossbows > shielders +2h > horses > polearms (and then the nerf) > horses + shielders (current)


This is pulling off the trend off the top of my head (based on failing memory and natural predators). Of course the 2h heroes have really persisted throughout the trends, simply that their tactics change and hybrids are used (instead of pure 2h).

At the time of the Chaos crossbros, I noticed the increase in horse archers to naturally prey on the immobility of the Operators (when they needed the reload). From there, we saw some foot archers spring up to counter that, which lead to more lancer cav to prey on the archers etc.

As cRPG grows and matures (in development, nothing to say about the community), the combat becomes a more even spread, as fighters realize after a bit that joint operations by several different classes functions better, instead of one merry-go-round of counter-classing (yes it's cool to see a legion with identical armor and weapons, but there is no variation in combat potential, which means easy defeat from ONE predator).

The only major exception which ran counter to my trend model (that crude arrow thing up three paragraphs) is the [horses > polearm > horses] section. I assume it's because the polearms got the nerf (which we had coming), but nothing came to the cavalry, which is - as of now - severely overpowered. They got an indirect buff simply because their melee counter-class has been compromised (because people haven't yet adapted; give it time), range remains a viable counter to horses, but are vulnerable to the speeding, backstabbing cherry picker poopooheads (I'm one) that represent the cav class (both scout and mounted infantry).

Right now, shielders are a fad. Much like the FotM weapons that you find throughout the months of gameplay. Remember when the Bec de Corbin with the fucking biggest dildo on the sex market? Now check the marketplace and see how many are flooding it.

Shielding will have its time, axes and polearms will come into play to counteract the shielding crew. Then the 2h heroes will have their age again. This is just the way of cRPG.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:48:34 pm by Dexxtaa »
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 05:36:03 pm »
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Shielders increasing is good, makes my teammates survive longer (hopefully) and not just die instantly to arrows or simply getting gangbanged!
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 05:37:19 pm »
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Shielders increasing is good, makes my teammates survive longer (hopefully) and not just die instantly to arrows or simply getting gangbanged!

But... so does the enemies?
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Offline San

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 05:40:18 pm »
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I notice a few more, but that's better than when I only saw 4-5 shielders on a 60+ man server a little while back.

Offline oohillac

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 05:44:23 pm »
+2
So many throwers in NA, it's hard to see why some people don't carry a shield.

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 05:47:53 pm »
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But... so does the enemies?

Still, longer fights with more people surviving is a bonus for my class! :)
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Offline NuberT

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 06:01:40 pm »
-3
somehow they have been "buffed" constantly in the last 18 months:

glancing chances decreased
loomed armor nerf
lightspeed stab/leftswing
throwing revival
polestagger remove
slow weapons are affected more by turning limit

personally I hate them more then archers right now  :twisted:

Offline Penitent

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 06:07:57 pm »
+2
somehow they have been "buffed" constantly in the last 18 months:

glancing chances decreased
loomed armor nerf
lightspeed stab/leftswing
throwing revival
polestagger remove
slow weapons are affected more by turning limit

personally I hate them more then archers right now  :twisted:

That's an interesting perspective.  I can see how glance chances can be considered a buff for low damage weapons (of all types, but 1h weapons are generally lower damage) but how are the others buffs?

-Loomed armor effects everyone, not shielders
-the left-swing is fast but the stab is shitty (and neither have been changed)
-most throwing weapons have "shield breaker" tags, so they hurt shields more when buffed
-polestagger remove does not buff shielders, it makes polearms slightly less effective
-short weapons are affected more by the spin nerf...this hurt 1h users the most


Offline Zanze

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 06:46:15 pm »
+3
Shielder popularity most likely due to increased amount of pure throwers.


Offline NuberT

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 06:56:44 pm »
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That's an interesting perspective.  I can see how glance chances can be considered a buff for low damage weapons (of all types, but 1h weapons are generally lower damage) but how are the others buffs?

-Loomed armor effects everyone, not shielders
-the left-swing is fast but the stab is shitty (and neither have been changed)
-most throwing weapons have "shield breaker" tags, so they hurt shields more when buffed
-polestagger remove does not buff shielders, it makes polearms slightly less effective
-short weapons are affected more by the spin nerf...this hurt 1h users the most


-nerf on loomed armor further decreases glancing chances
-I am pretty sure the stab speed has been increased recently, atleast it feels like this  (same goes for 2h)
-the other melee classes dont even have a shield against throwing therefore they get hit directly
-polearms are counter class to shielder - nerf on polearms means "buff" for shielders (example: long maul - its no longer possible to hit the same guy twice, because he recovers faster, then I can land a 2nd overhead (which was a silly mechanic anyway)
-well try to play with longmaul against shielder now, the moment you start an overhead the enemy can just move left or right and you cannot hit him - same goes for great maul

shielder have been "buffed" indirectly by nerfing their counter-part 

I am not saying shielder are op now, but compared to how it was fighting shielders over a year ago it has becone significantly harder  :D

Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 06:58:48 pm »
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I've always had trouble with shielders ever since I started so this makes me sad.

Offline Penitent

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Re: Shielder popularity
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 07:03:19 pm »
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-nerf on loomed armor further decreases glancing chances
-I am pretty sure the stab speed has been increased recently, atleast it feels like this  (same goes for 2h)
-the other melee classes dont even have a shield against throwing therefore they get hit directly
-polearms are counter class to shielder - nerf on polearms means "buff" for shielders (example: long maul - its no longer possible to hit the same guy twice, because he recovers faster, then I can land a 2nd overhead (which was a silly mechanic anyway)
-well try to play with longmaul against shielder now, the moment you start an overhead the enemy can just move left or right and you cannot hit him - same goes for great maul

shielder have been "buffed" indirectly by nerfing their counter-part 

I am not saying shielder are op now, but compared to how it was fighting shielders over a year ago it has becone significantly harder  :D

I think I see what you are saying, but I disagree that polearms are the counter to shields.  Polearms are the counter to cav mostly, and cav is the counter to shields (so are all axe weapons).

I guess glance nerf was kind of a buff for shielders, but even back before that when I had 6PS and any decent 1h weapon I hardly ever glanced.