Shields don't affect swing speed.

[Dexxtaa]

Shields are fine. Stop complaining. Learn to feint.

Better yet, learn to disengage and let them be someone else's problem. No one is forcing you to fight.

I *never* break any shields (unless they're lower tier or almost broken), but still make a decent killing on them.

Huscarls are great delayers, imo. I don't like them because they're really annoying to fight, otherwise I don't have a problem.

[Tears of Destiny]

Huscarls are great delayers, imo. I don't like them because they're really annoying to fight, otherwise I don't have a problem.

This reminds me of the last siege I was in where three players brought a weapon and three Huscarl shields (each), and refused to do anything but huddle around the flag and block... That must have been mildly irritating for the attackers to deal with, as it certainly bought time for the defenders.

[rustyspoon]

This reminds me of the last siege I was in where three players brought a weapon and three Huscarl shields (each), and refused to do anything but huddle around the flag and block... That must have been mildly irritating for the attackers to deal with, as it certainly bought time for the defenders.

See, this right here is my whole problem and why I did this research to begin with. Shields like huscarls are currently broken. Shield speed doesn't make a damn bit of difference and it should. If the bigger, heavier shields made you swing slower it would give a reason to take the lighter shields. The heavy shields would still be useful for defending or pushing in siege, whereas the lighter ones would be for general combat.

[Dravic]

Shields are fine. Stop complaining. Learn to feint.

Better yet, learn to disengage and let them be someone else's problem. No one is forcing you to fight.

This.

Stop making problems while there isnt any.

[rustyspoon]

This.

Stop making problems while there isnt any.

If you're a polearm user or a 2 hander shielders aren't much of a problem. If it's shielder vs shielder though, prepare for the most boring fight on the face of the planet.

[Daergar]

Having played a shielder extensively, just my two cents.

Huscarl has a magical forcefield, period.

Swingspeed is definately not affected by shield speed, feinting and raising are. How much is hard to determine, given latency and whatnot, at least for me personally.

A steel shield is utterly useless in a random fight, axes and such will shred it. Bonus against shield equals the need for high hp, low armor, shields, not the other way around.

People whining over shielding being "easymode" and whatever clearly does not know how they are played "properly"; hold off four people at once, make them hit each other, strike at the guy behind the first one in the killtrain (let your teammates flank them as you draw their attention). Hold the door-/arch-/passageway against all comers (mind the silly kicks). Cover the team from missile troops and charge the same, nullifying them (main reason to use a huscarl, after all). And so on.

A shielder fighting a two-hander, "skill" being equal, the shielder will lose. Don't bother with the "but if... / you suck!" logic. One on one, the shielder is slower, has less reach and damage. That said, there are many ways for either to outsmart the other, using the surroundings and situation to tilt the outcome.

A shielder with support (stabbing 2her, piker, missile, whatever), or in a supporting role, can kill or aid in the killing half a dozen enemies at once (well, in a row, anyway) without more to show for it than a few dents in the shield and a silly grin on his face. Yes, those truly gifted blocking, chambering, plain insane 2hers can do the same, but I have been told it's hard to block in three directions at the same time...

@Rustyspoon (just since I saw the reply as I went to post); Shielder vs shielder is far from boring, unless you think block, strike, repeat will defeat anything but the greenest fellow. ;)

Shielder rushing headlong into battle and being swarmed under or dying in a "duel" off to the side is what is giving the whole "class" a shitty name. That goes for any build/class, I know, but imho it's just easy to spot the lone huscarl being raped, compared to the various 2her/pole/archer hybrid builds.

Edit: And yes, obviously shield speed/weight SHOULD affect the attacks, hopefully there's a way to emulate that properly.

[rustyspoon]

Having played a shielder extensively, just my two cents.

Huscarl has a magical forcefield, period.

Swingspeed is definately not affected by shield speed, feinting and raising are. How much is hard to determine, given latency and whatnot, at least for me personally.

A steel shield is utterly useless in a random fight, axes and such will shred it. Bonus against shield equals the need for high hp, low armor, shields, not the other way around.

People whining over shielding being "easymode" and whatever clearly does not know how they are played "properly"; hold off four people at once, make them hit each other, strike at the guy behind the first one in the killtrain (let your teammates flank them as you draw their attention). Hold the door-/arch-/passageway against all comers (mind the silly kicks). Cover the team from missile troops and charge the same, nullifying them (main reason to use a huscarl, after all). And so on.

A shielder fighting a two-hander, "skill" being equal, the shielder will lose. Don't bother with the "but if... / you suck!" logic. One on one, the shielder is slower, has less reach and damage. That said, there are many ways for either to outsmart the other, using the surroundings and situation to tilt the outcome.

A shielder with support (stabbing 2her, piker, missile, whatever), or in a supporting role, can kill or aid in the killing half a dozen enemies at once (well, in a row, anyway) without more to show for it than a few dents in the shield and a silly grin on his face. Yes, those truly gifted blocking, chambering, plain insane 2hers can do the same, but I have been told it's hard to block in three directions at the same time...

@Rustyspoon (just since I saw the reply as I went to post); Shielder vs shielder is far from boring, unless you think block, strike, repeat will defeat anything but the greenest fellow. ;)

Shielder rushing headlong into battle and being swarmed under or dying in a "duel" off to the side is what is giving the whole "class" a shitty name. That goes for any build/class, I know, but imho it's just easy to spot the lone huscarl being raped, compared to the various 2her/pole/archer hybrid builds.

Edit: And yes, obviously shield speed/weight SHOULD affect the attacks, hopefully there's a way to emulate that properly.

Fighting a GOOD shielder is a good fight if you're also a shielder. Fighting a turtler is torture since it takes so long to break their shield even with a broad axe.

Also, after testing feinting and raising of the shield ARE NOT affected by shield speed and don't actually slow down your attack speed at all. You can check out my last addendum way at the beginning for why that is.

I'm also not saying shields are bad. I LIKE playing shielder. I just think there needs to be more diversity and making shield speeds actually matter is a good way to do that.

[Daergar]

Hmm, not entirely convinced regarding the feinting. Knightly heater certainly feels a wee bit faster when I release;block;new direction. Anything to do with the logic behind a smaller object having to travel faster to reach the same destination as a larger one, except you break off the momentum at the same early point?

[Christo]

From what I see, people only have problems with the Huscarl, other shields seem to be fine.

Even as Elegant Poleaxe user, I find those guys the most annoying (besides ranged) on the battlefield.

[Noble Crassius]

^I think all the shields but the seemingly unbreakable Huscarl is fine. I just don't like wailing on a shield 10 15 times only to die from one or two missed blocks. Now a steel/heavy board shield I can see why I should have to wail on them, they take some heavy investment.  the Huscarl does not however 4 points is a joke. it just doesn't seem to have any drawbacks for that perfect D it receives.

I'd rather fight two two handers then fight one shielder any day.

[rustyspoon]

Hmm, not entirely convinced regarding the feinting. Knightly heater certainly feels a wee bit faster when I release;block;new direction. Anything to do with the logic behind a smaller object having to travel faster to reach the same destination as a larger one, except you break off the momentum at the same early point?

"feels" is the key word in that sentence. As far as time goes they time out exactly the same. It seems that whenever you swing it instantly overrides whatever the shield was doing. By instantly overrides I mean that it immediately starts the swinging animation.

Once I get back from Kansas City in a week I am going to do some more extensive testing. I'm going to bring a character from shield 1 to shield 4 with no wpf and see if there are any differences. I'm guessing that there won't be, but it will be interesting to see.

[Vibe]

Since this is a S&B thread I won't bother posting a new one, I'll just ask here for your opinion on this build:

I'm looking for something fast and speedy, but still dealing good damage:

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 53

    * Converted: 8
    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 6
    * Shield: 4
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 6

    * One Handed: 156
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 1
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1

What do you think of this build?

I'm thinking of using it with Warhammer (99 speed) + Knightly Heater Shield (100 speed). I believe the low range on Warhammer shouldn't be a problem because athlethics will be at 7 and I won't be using any heavy armor that might slow me down.

[Spawny]

Since this is a S&B thread I won't bother posting a new one, I'll just ask here for your opinion on this build:

I'm looking for something fast and speedy, but still dealing good damage:

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 53

    * Converted: 8
    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 6
    * Shield: 4
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 6

    * One Handed: 156
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 1
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1

What do you think of this build?

I'm thinking of using it with Warhammer (99 speed) + Knightly Heater Shield (100 speed). I believe the low range on Warhammer shouldn't be a problem because athlethics will be at 7 and I won't be using any heavy armor that might slow me down.

Build looks solid. But I would swap agility and strength to a 21/18 build. You're not going for max shieldskill and in my oppinion +1 PS far outweighs the benefits of 1 athletics and some wpf points. Especially with the warhammer, with 7 PS you're much more likely to kill enemies in 1-3 hits.
I'm playing with a 24/12 build atm using either a MW sidesword, warhammer or steelpick with my (no, not a huscarl) board shield and I have no trouble keeping enemies in range of my short weapons. Just keep pushing and force them to backpaddle. The only thing you have to be carefull about is 2h swinging at you and jumping back with a swing when you counter attack. They will jump out of reach and hit you if you don't block.


Personally, I've build my character to be a siege specialist. A tad slow, but a hard hitting tank with 8 IF/PS and if the multiplier allows it with heavy armour. It's great to break the lines at the top of the ladders when attacking and great to keep multiple enemies busy for quite some time, dropping them 1 by 1 (my hits and teamhits) until I finally go down. The only thing you don't want to be facing are guys with shieldbreakers (more than 1 at the same time) and people like Bjord, who are just insanely fast.

[Bothersome_Aldryk]

One thing I would like to mention, since people are speaking about onehanders as if they have no advantages, is that they have extremely high speed. That is all, just pointing out something that somehow never got mentioned. Also, with a few onehanders *cough* Steel Pick *cough* your damage is pretty much comparable to a two hander. Yes, reach is the big issue with that weapon, I know, I know. I didn't find it all that hard to counter the reach issue on my shielder, but it certainly forced a different playstyle.

Also, just to mention. I don't play a shielder often. This isn't because I couldn't play well as a shielder... I actually did quite well on my shielder, but I just can't enjoy using shields extensively. I enjoy Manual Blocking, it's a ton of fun. Oh, and Dan is the same way. He hates going shielder, he does it when he gets pissed about ranged.

[Vibe]

Build looks solid. But I would swap agility and strength to a 21/18 build. You're not going for max shieldskill and in my oppinion +1 PS far outweighs the benefits of 1 athletics and some wpf points. Especially with the warhammer, with 7 PS you're much more likely to kill enemies in 1-3 hits.
I'm playing with a 24/12 build atm using either a MW sidesword, warhammer or steelpick with my (no, not a huscarl) board shield and I have no trouble keeping enemies in range of my short weapons. Just keep pushing and force them to backpaddle. The only thing you have to be carefull about is 2h swinging at you and jumping back with a swing when you counter attack. They will jump out of reach and hit you if you don't block.


Personally, I've build my character to be a siege specialist. A tad slow, but a hard hitting tank with 8 IF/PS and if the multiplier allows it with heavy armour. It's great to break the lines at the top of the ladders when attacking and great to keep multiple enemies busy for quite some time, dropping them 1 by 1 (my hits and teamhits) until I finally go down. The only thing you don't want to be facing are guys with shieldbreakers (more than 1 at the same time) and people like Bjord, who are just insanely fast.

Thanks for the feedback Spawny, I have reconsidered my spec. I believe that 7 ATH would be overdoing it, considering that I won't be wearing heavy armor (or heavy shields for that matter) and 6 ATH should be far enough to catch a backpeddaler. I think I'm better of with 1 more PS.

So I'm going with 21/18, which is more or less the same as 18/21 build, but 1 less ATH and 1 more PS:

(click to show/hide)

    * Converted: 8
    * Ironflesh: 0
    * Power Strike: 7
    * Shield: 4
    * Athletics: 6
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 6