Elindor's Maps Feedback & Updates Thread

[Elindor]

I agree Zlisch, and I try not to....but sometimes what you want to do requires it and the scene props are somewhat limited, as well as the functionality of the editor itself

For that reason, I allow inconsistencies when I have to for gameplay.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I agree Zlisch, and I try not to....but sometimes what you want to do requires it and the scene props are somewhat limited, as well as the functionality of the editor itself

For that reason, I allow inconsistencies when I have to for gameplay.

If you use the right props carefully and stretch them enough you can cover the "rhodock" wall with an extremely thin layer of some other wall, just a tip.

[Elindor]

Rochester may need some minor adjustments for balance....not sure yet - need to watch it more.

If anyone who plays it can report their thoughts on balance of the map please do (preferably constructive in nature )

[Tanken]

In Devonshire Keep can you make the stone walls around the flag area maybe 1-2 meters higher? People have found ways to jump over them that are on offense.

[Zerran]

Played Rochester a few times now. It's a fairly balanced map as long as both sides are organized. If defenders don't camp flag, and attackers are even slightly organized, it's an instant attacker win though. The back door could maybe use some more reinforcement.

[Elindor]

Caita, when you guys are on defense how is it?  Is offense able to contest the flag area at all or no?

A large organized group such as KUTT is going to win most maps, as they should - because siege maps are balanced for "normal pubby play" (which may include some clan mates here and there, but not like 20 on one team)

To test balance properly, it has to be observed in a normal pubby play situation - OR - there has to be large organized clans opposing each other, so that the sides are balanced.

I am going to be watching Rochester though and please continue to give feedback - it may need some minor changes as you mentioned.

[Elindor]

POSSIBLE REVISIONS TO ROCHESTER FOR BALANCE :

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

1 - adding second postern door to slow down attackers
2 - moving attack initial spawn back across bridge (bit longer run)
3 - moving 1 or 2 more defense spawns up to flag platform
4 - moving defense "spawn center" to flag platform
5 - rearranging other defense spawns

WHAT I NEED TO KNOW:

I need to know if two teams of largely pubs (no major clan influence atm) are balanced on this map or if offense is still too easy.

[Elindor]

Looking for feedback on this map (pictures below) - posting here because I don't think many people actually read the SCENE EDITING area of the forums.

Ok so - couple disclaimer notes first:

1 - Please only vote/respond if you have played this map (in rotation on EU2 and NA2 - Siege) a couple of times at least
2 - Try to be CONSTRUCTIVE.  If you hate the map, say why you think its not balanced and what would make it better
3 - Maps are hard to make (scene editor sucks), and hard to TEST (no where to test with large player base besides....well....the servers) so try to be not only constructive but informative - don't be vague
4 - The better feedback I and other mappers get (very few people in community doing this btw), the better balanced the maps can become

----------------------------------------

** A NOTE ABOUT BALANCE**
A properly balanced map will yield roughly even results (offense wins/defense wins) over many rounds.  This would mean either mainly pubs vs mainly pubs, or a large organized clan vs a large organized clan.  If a large organized clan is against mostly pubs, the large organized clan is LIKELY to win, and if the map is balanced, probably should most of the time.  This cannot be avoided, for hopefully obvious reasons.

Balancing a siege map is a delicate balance of run times from attacker spawns, defense spawn locations (not an exact science on that one), flag location, choke points, doors, terrain, etc.  Most siege maps contain a difficult front approach, and a rear approach in case front approach is too defended - but the rear approach usually is a longer run and/or more precarious.

----------------------------------------

ROCHESTER CASTLE (SIEGE)

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

The outer walls of this map are meant to be breached rather easily, as the keep ascent will be difficult for offense and most of any round will consist of this.  The stairs stone are the primary approach to the flag, but the wooden stairs on the backside are meant as a secondary approach if necessary.

So, things to think about:

- Is this map too easy for offense to take?
- Is this map too easy for defense to defend?
- What are the things that make it one or the other in your opinion...

Things that can be done to balance:

- adjustment of spawn locations (keep in mind these are handled VERY oddly in scene editor and 100% control is NOT achievable)
- adding/removing doors
- making choke points more/less overcome
- etc


...Believe it or not, so far I've seen offense win this more than defense so far

[Froto_the_Loc]

Guess I'll be first with not much to say.

Defense has an advantage considering most of the fighting takes place on a giant choke point.

The backdoor of the castle is pretty useless since I've seen it mostly used to bypass defenses or surprise attack, but this just leads to the back stair case, with defense at the very top. Long walk with little payoff.

The door under the big staircase is so misleading I spent like an hour chopping it down only to find a little room.

No matter what I say, it's excellently crafted.

[Elindor]

Thanks Froto, but vote! 
Oh, and Froto, sometimes defense spawns in that room...

[Tom Cruise]

Defense heavy map. Choke points are very hard to break through here, especially when its stairs. People with pokers, crushthrough, shieldwall, etc. can just stack at the top of the stairs and hold that, then on top of that, archers, xbowers, and throwers can get on the sides, rear, and have the high ground so they can just rain down an unholy cluster fuck of pin cushioning action! I would suggest trying to widen the areas up to the flag in order not to bottle neck everyone or to make some other form of access to the flag (that I do not know for I would need to study the map more). But overall a very detailed, and creative map!

(click to show/hide)

Love you Elindor <3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

[Slamz]

I think the best siege maps are:

1) Mostly flat.  Ladders up to walls okay.  Steep hills or 200 foot climbs not ok.
2) Have 2 mediocre forward attack vectors, 1 mediocre rear attack vector and a gate relatively close to the flag that's an awesome attack vector if they can get it open and hold it.  This gives offense and defense two objectives worth fighting over instead of just one.
3) Have no breakable doors because the door bug is apparently unfixable.


This map, IMO, fails both 1 & 2.   It's too vertical, which is a pain for attackers and gives defensive ranged too much advantage.  There are 3 ways in to the flag but there's no secondary objective worth bothering with so it's just a boring flag camp.  The only way defense should lose this map is if they aren't fighting on the flag.

I'm not sure if it fails #3 because frankly all I do is rush straight to the flag and the rest of the map is just some terrain that's briefly in the way of the fight at the roof.

[Tzar]

This map at least on eu have been a server killer...

Just last night we went from 63 players to 36 in 1.30 min playing this map

Dun care if you defender or attacker its boring and the spawnpoints / places to fight are trash..

[Teeth]

The map is pretty first of all.

When I played it there were like 5 HRE on, which could break through pretty easily, they won quite a few rounds while not being that many. I have played it once, but it seemed reasonably balanced then.

Yes the tower is a huge chokepoint, but there is atleast three ways to get to the top part of the keep. What you should not forget is that defenders do not at all always spawn on top. I have been spawned at the wall, which leaves me to find a staircase down, find a staircase up, walk all the way up and then I can defend the chokepoints. I think this balances the map, cause in the end there is not always that much defenders on top of the tower.

Although the far away spawning for defenders saves the balance, I hate it. In any siege map, I think the defenders should spawn reasonably close to the flag, so they can defend it. I hate those retarded castles where I spawn outside the castle as  defender.

I will wait till I play it some more with a full server before I vote

[ArysOakheart]

Defense heavy map. Choke points are very hard to break through here, especially when its stairs. People with pokers, crushthrough, shieldwall, etc. can just stack at the top of the stairs and hold that, then on top of that, archers, xbowers, and throwers can get on the sides, rear, and have the high ground so they can just rain down an unholy cluster fuck of pin cushioning action! I would suggest trying to widen the areas up to the flag in order not to bottle neck everyone or to make some other form of access to the flag (that I do not know for I would need to study the map more). But overall a very detailed, and creative map!

(click to show/hide)

Love you Elindor <3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

I can only hear that in your voice. Which makes it difficult to read. The sex blows my eardums.