Author Topic: Buff hoplites/hybrids  (Read 3003 times)

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Offline Leshma

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Buff hoplites/hybrids
« on: June 11, 2012, 10:44:11 pm »
-4
Revert some changes you did in the past when hoplites had their greatest ally polestagger. Also buff them a little bit more. What I'm thinking:

Awlpike, Ashwood Pike, Boar Spear, War Spear, Red Tassel Spear, Double Sided Lance and Forks - 1 slot

Awlpike and Ashwood Pike - sheatable

Awlpike - can be used with shield

Also buff Awlpike price by 2k gold.

What this change will do?

It will give polearm users who aren't using pikes/long spears a way to fend off cav. Also hoplites will be able to switch to four directional polearm while dueling someone which will make them pretty strong opponent.

Offline Bjord

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 10:48:39 pm »
+4
Sorry but no.

Stop brainfarting, man.
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Offline bruce

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 10:49:39 pm »
0
No. Perhaps lessen the damage and speed penalities of using spears in one hand, but not to hoplite/glaivespammer etc hybrids. That is a bad idea.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 11:16:27 pm »
+1
I think it would be good to let awlpike be used with shield again after removing polestagger...

Honestly it would be good for the balance team to look at the full spectrum of what their "balance" will do to the game.  Naturally that would include looking at spear/hoplite users after removing polestagger.  A lot of changes in the past were made with polestagger in mind.
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Offline BlackMilk

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 11:21:20 pm »
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You're pathetic you become a polearm/cav hybrid and instantly start to lobby for multiple polearm (bec and now this) and Hybrid (Lower bonus for any skill>6) buffs...

im a polearm lover but i think this change would suck

Offline Leshma

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 11:36:34 pm »
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Hoplitesa aren't as strong against infantry as they used to be when they had polestagger. This change is mainly to let them counter cav which are still strongest and most carefree class in the game.

No, I'm not cav/pole hybrid. I'm just trying out different classes to see how they perform. I do think that polearmers who don't use pikes are at disadvantage against cav and that shouldn't be the case. I'm stronger anti cav unit with greatsword than with poleaxe and that doesn't make any sense. Sure, I can stop the horse with a poleaxe but it's risky to deal with lancers because best ones will outreach me a lot easier. With greatsword fighting single cav is easy mode.

Offline bruce

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 11:49:02 pm »
0
Tbh, the greatest way to counter cavalry is to buff ranged / nerf horses or both. Even with all this stuff, if you play as a total tard it is easy to get some kills with just a great lance and courser. Do that and unfuck the lance angles, it is just stupid compared to the old system, esp. cav vs cav fights.

As for awlpike being usable with shield, +1 to that. I would just not like the hoplite / glaive hybrid, bit too good imo.

The old crpg with more damaging archers (and worse horse heirlooms, riding being every 6 agi too) then this crap and open maps (esp on EU4 which was very populated at the time) saw a hell of a lot more tactical play instead of this random crap. Shieldwalls and such were quite common. But I guess that is boring and everyone should :chaarge: and :meleehero:

« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:58:09 pm by bruce »
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 11:56:57 pm »
0
Well, Hybridisation DOES need buffing, but not the polearms: The WPF curve needs reworking, or the effect of wpf, because if you google Hoplite, hit images and what do you see? Men with Spears, shields AND SWORDS.  Currently, its ONLY JUST viable to make an actual hoplite, spearman, shield-brother, weapon-man, call it what you will, the weapons we have in crpg are WEIRDLY out of time with the armours in general:


2handed weapons were not popular prior to the 15-16th century, nor where the array of massive poleaxes we have, and the armours are in general much older. Prior to 2handers and halberd type weapons supporting pike formations, most hairy, manly men marched off to war with a spear and a shield, cause spears keep fuckers away from you, and shields keep you alive. But once the nasty foreigners (or nasty peasants, or nasty rebels, or nasty locals refusing to get raided) were past your spearpoint, you pulled out a sword (if you could afford it), or an axe, or club and beat the nasty man over the head with it, untill he stopped trying to expose your insides to the light. This was the way of it for thousands of years, mainly because it was effective. The rise of large 2handers and weapons like the bec were to counter plate armour. Now back to game balance:

Spear and shield is near on suicidal in any 1v1 against anyone who has been playing since before last tuesday, to fix it a/ buff wpf so you can effectively hybridise without it being a massively uphill struggle, or b/ nerf athletics in armour so spamhanders, OOOPS i mean 2handers cannot just walk around behind your shield, or c/ I dunno, increase upkeep costs so 50+ armour is not the norm?, or d/ I dunno I had more but gf just walked in and I forgot them derp.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 12:02:27 am »
0
Revert some changes you did in the past when hoplites had their greatest ally polestagger. Also buff them a little bit more. What I'm thinking:

Awlpike, Ashwood Pike, Boar Spear, War Spear, Red Tassel Spear, Double Sided Lance and Forks - 1 slot

Awlpike and Ashwood Pike - sheatable

Awlpike - can be used with shield

Also buff Awlpike price by 2k gold.

What this change will do?

It will give polearm users who aren't using pikes/long spears a way to fend off cav. Also hoplites will be able to switch to four directional polearm while dueling someone which will make them pretty strong opponent.

I wouldnt change the  amount of slots.

I wouldnt make the unsheathables, sheathable. (Those are too long to throw on your back easily and effectively.  If you have to drop it, just remember where you dropped it.   :rolleyes:

I WOULD make the Pike usable with shield, now that there is no stagger. (Has the stagger gotten to the non-EU servers yet? if not, well I dont support this until it does)

 

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 12:07:52 am »
0


I wouldnt make the unsheathables, sheathable. (Those are too long to throw on your back easily and effectively.  If you have to drop it, just remember where you dropped it.   :rolleyes:



Im sorry, awlpike is more unwieldy than a greatsword? Send me your dealers phone number pls, he must be sellin you that good shit.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 12:19:24 am »
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I didnt say more unwieldy, I said it was LONGER.

I dunno about you, but I think it would take me alot less time and lack of mobility, to have a 5 foot sword in a sheath on my back, then trying to get sheathed, and then manuever with an 10 foot+ heavy wood pole some how 'sheathed'?  to my back?  To be honest, anything longer than a bec, a bill, or a boar, really shouldnt be sheathable. If even those.

If I was argueing 'unwieldy' though?

Where did you get this idea that an Awepike is less unwieldy than a Greatsword?  Maybe while swinging/fighting with it, yes, but carrying around?  I think your the one smokin the good stuff... lol

Polearms in general are meant to be cast away/aside when the fighting gets in TOO close, youd get killed while your trying to sheath the damned thing....  :lol:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 12:29:41 am by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline Leshma

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 12:29:16 am »
0
Currently awlpike is sheatable, ashwood pike isn't. But ashwood pike can be used with a shield, awlpike can't because of high damage and polestagger which is now gone.

My idea is to make all spears shorter than 175 sheatable, which will revitalize 1h/pole cav hybrid because light lance would become sheatable. Of course, stats nerf should come along with it but I want to see more Light Lances around. Heavy Lance is the most popular lance and that's going on for year or more. That should change imho.

Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 12:31:08 am »
0
pls stop
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Offline bruce

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 12:33:10 am »
+2
Here's an idea, for spears (that is, forks, warspears and such - not the light lance) which are usable on horse, unfuck the radius. So you can lance using a lance with retard radius or use a shorter spear-type thing.
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Buff hoplites/hybrids
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 12:37:53 am »
0
Here's an idea, for spears (that is, forks, warspears and such - not the light lance) which are usable on horse, unfuck the radius. So you can lance using a lance with retard radius or use a shorter spear-type thing.

This is good
 big +1
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