Weapon modifiers, from best to worst

[Dezilagel]

Knockdown = 2-3 free hits.

Stagger = maybe 1 free hit.

Can't really compare.

[CrazyCracka420]

Not all shieldbreakers are unbalanced....

sheesh ya'll act like 1h weapons don't exist....

Also my long bardiche and long war axe have bonus against shield, they are not unbalanced (and are sheathable).

[Canary]

Knockdown = 2-3 free hits.

Stagger = maybe 1 free hit.

Can't really compare.

Stagger happens on 50% of all damaging polearm hits. Half. Knockdown happens far less than that, and affords you one free hit unless you've got an extremely fast weapon, which all tend to have low damage, assuming you don't exploit it to kick the person on the ground afterwards. It's easier to hit a person standing than a person on the ground as well.

It's also worth noting that the polearms with knockdown are arguably not the best of weapons in their class.

[Gurnisson]

assuming you don't exploit it to kick the person on the ground afterwards.

That's why knockdown give 2 or more extra hits. One when he's on the ground (maybe 2 if you're using one of the shorter maces), one with a kick-slash when he tries to get up, and who knows if you might knock him down again after the kickslash and continue the cycle. Knockdown > Stagger

[Canary]

That's why knockdown give 2 or more extra hits. One when he's on the ground (maybe 2 if you're using one of the shorter maces), one with a kick-slash when he tries to get up, and who knows if you might knock him down again after the kickslash and continue the cycle. Knockdown > Stagger

Alright, but I'm just considering polearms here, and most of the knockdown polearms are not very good weapons in comparison to other polearms. If you're talking 1handers or 2handers (shorter maces?), obviously they can't even have stagger so that comparison is purely academic.

It's also possible to get chain staggers, which is far more likely to happen than repeat knockdowns (which afaik can only happen if you do the kick maneuver, since you can't knock a downed person down until they get back up). And like I said, you don't have to adjust your positioning or your aim whatsoever upon a stagger, it's easier to hit them, but if you knock someone down you have to be more on-the-ball.

I have managed to kick someone after a stagger-hit before, as well.

[Bulzur]

I agree with the OP's order.

Though i really hate the knockdown, maybe more than the crushthrough, since it's more random. Being knockdown while wearing full plate, and only loosing 1% of life, by a 1h mace wielded by an archer is really...infuriating.

[Zisa]

Polestagger stunlock is the dirtiest.

[Dezilagel]

You also can't stagger someone who's in a stagger, so because of the kick I'd say you're actually more likely to get knocked down several times in a row.

And staffs are pretty great. Especially the Quarterstaff is an amazing wep for 1-slot, the main reason I didn't use it on my archer alts was that it blocked the screen.

[oprah_winfrey]

Stagger happens on 50% of all damaging polearm hits. Half. Knockdown happens far less than that, and affords you one free hit unless you've got an extremely fast weapon, which all tend to have low damage, assuming you don't exploit it to kick the person on the ground afterwards. It's easier to hit a person standing than a person on the ground as well.

It's also worth noting that the polearms with knockdown are arguably not the best of weapons in their class.

AFAIK, the polestagger that results in the inability to block is only around 30%.

[Canary]

AFAIK, the polestagger that results in the inability to block is only around 30%.

On a normal hit(1h, 2h) strike and strike2 animations are called. They got a duration of about 0.5 to 0.6s depending on hit location. They are the same as in Native and can be checked with the Native MS in the animations.py. On a polearm hit there is a 50% chance that strike3 are called instead and they got a duration of 0.8 to 1s. The code says that polearms with the knockdown flag never call the strike3 animation.

[Dezilagel]

Polestagger is 50% yeah, but you're not going to get a free hit in every time it happens.

[Canary]

Polestagger is 50% yeah, but you're not going to get a free hit in every time it happens.

Since we're talking theoretical situations, the same can be said for knockdown, especially now that there's ground collision. Yeah, you might not hit again on a stagger, but you can do it reliably, even with fairly slow weapons. They're both a matter of particulars.

[_GTX_]

I just hate polestagger, i find it ridicolous. I didnt rly see why it was needed.

I find it a little op.

[CrazyCracka420]

Even as someone who uses polearms when on foot, I don't ever notice pole stagger when I hit people...but I guess I typically don't try to swing as soon as I've just released my swing, I'm usually ready to block (because I'm assuming my hit will be blocked since weapon speeds are so slow and there's only 4 block directions).

[Zisa]

Polestagger is 50% yeah, but you're not going to get a free hit in every time it happens.

I beg to differ. On occasion, and not rarely, I see some poor bastard standing there with his pants down after I've hit him. And when it chains, also not all that hard, it's lights out.

Even worse is getting hit by a pissant spear.

It is a stupid mechanic.