Pike + 5ps? (question to exp. pike/longspear users)

[belm]

Well I'm playing with long spear all the time.
I started with 21str/18agi build and I can say it was good choice. You can wear medium / heavy armor and do decent damage.
After a while I've realized that for pole (long spear) medium armor (40+) is enough and you can survive with few decent blocks.
Don't forget that you are support and you have only one attack - thrust.

so far Im experimenting with two build types:
- 30 agi/ 9 str (10 athletics)
well this build is like: "they cant hit you because you are Speedy Gonzales" your damage output is not very good but for some people your speed is just annoying - you can maintain distance while doing dmg.
Very very funny build.
- Haven't noticed bounces at all.

- 30 str/ 9 agi (right now - 10 ps)
well this is tank build, with 78 HP (I think). You can take 4 - 5 hits and still be the one who survives.
so far I can execute most mediums just with two hits, lights armored targets are one thrust deal.
The problem are heavy armored - shield wearing people so I have to kick very often.
So far the biggest issue are team hits.

I can say that long spear is good weapon BUT! you have to pick your targets carefully and also you always have to be in group with 1 - 2 people:
- you + 1 - 2 friendly = enemy can't attack but have to block
- you + 3(+) friendly = you cant thrust, there is too many people around

Also note that you will be the first target - all people seems to hate long spears / pikes so they will ignore others and attack you instead.
And also prepare that you will hear many people crying that long spears are too OP.

[Roran Hawkins]

I'm making hybrid pole/1h'er designed for the longspear, but am doubting between 2 builds:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 66
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 91
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 140
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1


+1wpm-1athl

or this


Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 66
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 90
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 130
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

[Smoothrich]

max athletics, max IF, put 3 (or whatevers left) in WM, ~~ pro build

highest priority for maxing stats in infantry build is PS and Athletics by far, then imo IF before WM.  Having a few extra HP will get you more kills then .00001 more damage/swing speed.

you can do 110 polearm 80-90 1hand and be just fine with 3 WM, with a long spear type weapon you definitely don't need more than 110

[Digglez]

max athletics, max IF, put 3 (or whatevers left) in WM, ~~ pro build

highest priority for maxing stats in infantry build is PS and Athletics by far, then imo IF before WM.  Having a few extra HP will get you more kills then .00001 more damage/swing speed.

you can do 110 polearm 80-90 1hand and be just fine with 3 WM, with a long spear type weapon you definitely don't need more than 110

If you want to be a longspear, commit to it, dont do that 1h puss out shit.  The GOOD spearman dont drop their weapon for a sidearm, they wait for enemy to make mistake and kill them.  Getting WPF above 130~ means you are a true danger to anyone on the battlefield, even if they single you out to try and take you out first.  Getting your WPF up above 130 means you can recover from missed stabs/accidentally hitting ground or glancing in time to block attacks. 

[dreadnok]

its a piece of shit class anyway that's gone in wor anyway

[Roran Hawkins]

If you want to be a longspear, commit to it, dont do that 1h puss out shit.  The GOOD spearman dont drop their weapon for a sidearm, they wait for enemy to make mistake and kill them.  Getting WPF above 130~ means you are a true danger to anyone on the battlefield, even if they single you out to try and take you out first.  Getting your WPF up above 130 means you can recover from missed stabs/accidentally hitting ground or glancing in time to block attacks.

I have the 1h for other occasions, like siege maps or when engaged by spammers.

[Zanze]

Just for the record, the speed bonus of wpf is crap ill admit, but for weapons that have low base damage (long spear / pike) wpf scales very nicely.

I chose to stack 7 WM instead of 7 IF and according to both available calculators hit a bit harder than if I had 21 str, 7 PS, and 111 wpf in poles. I know I could just go with the 7 IF/PS and get roughly 130wpf and do about the same damage with more health but I prefer the non-repairs as well. The wpf also helps nicely when I use non-longspear/pike weapons. polestagger people to death all the time.

I agree with Diggles on the whole sidearms are crap. If you truly know how to use the weapon you can fight 99% of people with it. Granted, the other 1% know to hold their downblock or chamber you're thrust and will destroy you, but you should be able to get at least ONE good hit on them and then run to find a teammate or a better weapon. (If last player alive, drop your pike/LS)

I also heavily prefer the 7 ath over 6, or 8 over both, because I hate being inches away from rearing that horse and missing the only chance in half the round to kill it. Or watching my teammate die a few steps away because I was too slow. I don't generally care about kills as much as winning the multi, so if I go 0-5 because I couldn't get a concrete kill I'll be happy when we win. The Templar Siege on Reyvadin that brought Longspears? Every time I pressed LMB I hit someone. However, they all had Heraldic Transitional Armor and were fresh out of their spawn. I wasn't killing much, but pole staggering them in the middle of 4-5 of my kill hungry teammates definitely was.

Just keep in mind, you are a support class not a 2 handed hero.

[Relit]

I literally pulled myself back from Valhalla, just to post in this thread:

STR builds for a dedicated spear/pikeman are for SOLO play. They are to slow to keep up with the battle line. A spear/pikeman's job is to support the infantry. Everything they do should be anchored around a specific "battlebuddy", with high agility/ATH you can maneuver around the battlefield to do your job: Support.

A 18/18 or 18/21 is a decent build, that Ive personally worked with, it suffers from a slight lack of speed.

Also on the topic of sidearms for spear/pikemen: They weigh you down too much and with enough practice, you wont need one.

[ShinySpoons]

The main benefit of a sidearm is it makes you look and feel more badass. My favourite is the Grosse Messer. Style points. Gotta go for them.

[Zerran]

Damn it, I leave for a while and miss a great thread.

Anyway, might be a bit late but here's my input:

1. Don't underestimate a good sidearm, especially if you're using a pike. Don't listen to the BS about sidearms not being useful. There are situations where a pike/longspear is simply not a good option, and having a good sidearm can really save your ass. If you get the hang of switching between your pike and sidearm at the right times, it can net you some easy, free hits as well. My sidearm of choice is the langes messer in 2H mode.

2. Balanced builds, especially with a slight focus on strength are, imo, the way to go. Personally I use 21/18 with 7 IF, 7 PS, 6 Ath, and 3 WM (99 2H prof, 98 polearm prof). If you go low strength, there's just too high a chance of glancing.

3. This is mostly to non-pikemen but: DON'T CONFUSE THE PIKE AND LONGSPEAR! They are 2 very different, distinct weapons. The longspear is a much better balanced weapon, and has a lot fewer weaknesses, but the 55 range reduction can really be a pain, especially when fighting Pikes.

[Relit]

Damn it, I leave for a while and miss a great thread.

Anyway, might be a bit late but here's my input:

1. Don't underestimate a good sidearm, especially if you're using a pike. Don't listen to the BS about sidearms not being useful. There are situations where a pike/longspear is simply not a good option, and having a good sidearm can really save your ass. If you get the hang of switching between your pike and sidearm at the right times, it can net you some easy, free hits as well. My sidearm of choice is the langes messer in 2H mode.

2. Balanced builds, especially with a slight focus on strength are, imo, the way to go. Personally I use 21/18 with 7 IF, 7 PS, 6 Ath, and 3 WM (99 2H prof, 98 polearm prof). If you go low strength, there's just too high a chance of glancing.

3. This is mostly to non-pikemen but: DON'T CONFUSE THE PIKE AND LONGSPEAR! They are 2 very different, distinct weapons. The longspear is a much better balanced weapon, and has a lot fewer weaknesses, but the 55 range reduction can really be a pain, especially when fighting Pikes.

1: Sidearms slow you down as a pike/spearmen. Speed is the most important attribute for us on the battlefield. I highly recommend newer players stick to just the Pike/LS with no backup. It will force you to learn your weapon and get the most out of it.

2: You might as well just stack into just polearm. For the reason stated above and also because if it gets really so desperate that you need to switch to a backup weapon you can always just grab a polearm off the ground. (also the difference between 140+ prof and 99 prof is actually noticeable)

3: Dear god you are so right. People constantly confuse LS and Pike. They are completely different and are used in slightly different styles of use. Disagree on the LS being "much better balanced", the extra range for the pike opens up more opportunities to help teammates and keeps cavalry even more at bay.

[Zerran]

1: Sidearms slow you down as a pike/spearmen. Speed is the most important attribute for us on the battlefield. I highly recommend newer players stick to just the Pike/LS with no backup. It will force you to learn your weapon and get the most out of it.

2: You might as well just stack into just polearm. For the reason stated above and also because if it gets really so desperate that you need to switch to a backup weapon you can always just grab a polearm off the ground. (also the difference between 140+ prof and 99 prof is actually noticeable)

3: Dear god you are so right. People constantly confuse LS and Pike. They are completely different and are used in slightly different styles of use. Disagree on the LS being "much better balanced", the extra range for the pike opens up more opportunities to help teammates and keeps cavalry even more at bay.

1. There are a huge number of situations where a pike/LS is simply at a massive disadvantage, and having a sidearm can really be useful. Mostly these are 1v1 situations which can largely be avoided by having good clanmates with you, but even then 1v1 situations happen.
           - in a small room or alleyway without good support.
           - fighting a player that understands, and can react to, jump-spins. (Or a player you've hit a few times with one already. Most people learn after getting stabbed a few times.)
           - fighting mauls.
           - fighting some guy that decides to just backpeddle and downblock no matter what you do.
           - fighting on walls without good support.
           - fighting around steep inclines
           - fighting in areas with lots of junk/debris strewn about.

2. Again, with a sidearm you may as well put some points into it if you want to use it at all.

3. By "better balanced" I meant there are fewer situations where the longspear is at a massive disadvantage vs. other weapon choices. The pike tends to get caught on walls/debris more easily, and the longspear can both "spam" faster, react to thrust stun better, and can in general fight 1v1 more easily. Hence why I can see the longspear not necessarily needing a sidearm, but I strongly recommend it for a pike.
           

[Para]

In my experience, a piker doesn't need mobility, he just needs good blocking skill and attack timing. If the piker is being attacked, the person supporting the piker should be hitting that guy in the back. You just have to keep the buddy system instilled in both players in order to have a successful supportive piker.

I'll take a supporting piker that can hit like a truck and survive hits over one that can move a little faster. Even if the piker is the slowest member of the group, the other players should be accommodating to the pikers speed, not the other way around. That 300 length weapon slows you down quite a bit anyways.  Xeen usually went 30/9 with 10 ps(i think) when he was piking, and we could duo large groups of players at a time.

[Zanze]

Idk man. In my 15-24 build I 2-3 shotted people regularly thanks to the stupid amount of speed bonus you can throw into your attacks because of how slow they are. That was using a +1 longspear. With a +3 it turned to 1-2 shots with 18/21. All that str is overkill.

The reason I think you guys may enjoy and see str build pikes as more effective is because a lot of your crew are also strength builds in full plate or so. That slow mass isn't as effective in battle, but in siege works wonders. (Which is where I see you guys the most)

I also am dicks at controlling my stabs and hit teammates a good majority of the time. Abusing my speed bonus lets me drag my hit into their foot while backpeddling to do little damage, whereas If I had 10PS i'd still do an extremely large amount and probably tk my way to a banthread. Damage control rocks.

[Gurnisson]

You need both mobility and damage. 21/18 is so much win for piking that I can't even describe it. 2/3 headshots are one-shot with a +3 pike, deal great damage to the body too, is still maneuverable enough to target switch a lot. Badass build