Pike + 5ps? (question to exp. pike/longspear users)

[Joseph Porta]

no

no

just spinning does NOT give you any speedbonus at all

So only jumping towards your target does?

And I did mean a combination of a spin and making a forward movement, still no effect with the forward movement?

[Vibe]

So only jumping towards your target does?

And I did mean a combination of a spin and making a forward movement, still no effect with the forward movement?

Speed bonus is just how fast both you and your enemy collide, it can be while jumping, running, on a horse... etc

So the most speed bonus you can get is when you and your enemy are moving towards eachother and the least when your enemy is moving away and you hit him while you are also backpedaling away from him.

[Joseph Porta]

Speed bonus is just how fast both you and your enemy collide, it can be while jumping, running, on a horse... etc

So the most speed bonus you can get is when you and your enemy are moving towards eachother and the least when your enemy is moving away and you hit him while you are also backpedaling away from him.

I see I see, now to implement it in the game!

[Zanze]

If you are going to pike or longspear(recommended) for pure support I HIGHLY recommend a 15/24 build. Put all your points into polewpf, GET WEAPON MASTER. IT MATTERS. Trust me on this, you want weapon master for the longspear. That extra bleh second will help you block overheads if you miss or hit the ground or do something stupid. Also, with about 140ish wpf you will hit almost as hard as 6 PS and 111 wpf anyways.

Now, lets keep this clear. With 5 powerstrike, YOU WILL glance...if you are not moving. Take advantage of the small point of the weapon and its slowness to maximize your speed bonus and aim for head or feet if they have crap armor. ALWAYS be moving, even if its a side to side disco. This will keep your opponent offguard, annoy him because he is most likely a str crutcher in comparison to you, and allow you a quick getaway or easy jumpstab. Just remember you have 8 ath and they most likely have 5, if even that. Abuse that difference and run circles around them.

I won't say using the longspear is easy, but it will take a VERY long time to get used to the weapon. You need to abuse your speed bonus as it is what will most make this weapon "OP" in the eyes of other. Abusing the acceleration from 8 ath is the difference between glancing on a plated dude, or killing him in about 2-4 hits from full hp.

In a team setting, pick someone and follow him. That is your anchor. You will also be helping him if you do something else, such as turning around and stabbing an enemy going for another teammate. Turn back around and support your anchor, if he dies, it is your fault in 99% of situations and you must replace him/her ASAP. Try and stay to the right of him is something i've heard helps, but I personally don't mind either side.

The better you get at supporting, the further away you can get from your anchor and the more teammates you can help at once. The more ath you have, obviously the faster you can move out to help a teammate and return before someone notices you. You should not be blocking, that is the purpose of the anchor, or human shield. If you do have to block, block once and run past the enemy. Jump and turn and stab them and return to your anchor. If you are alone, block until either the enemy gets bored or you see a chance to escape and outrun him.

Patience.

[Bulzur]

24/15.

When you manage to pike someone by surprise, it damages them enough that they loose their focus.
Also, it enables a 2-3 hits to kill horses. With this, no unarmored horses have escaped. And no riders either.
With the 5 WM points all in polearm, you're still fast enough to be able to thrust TWICE at an dehorsed cav, if he didn't go too far.

I love it.

[[ptx]]

High str builds also can defend themselves in 1v1 most of the time with a pike, since you don't glance nowhere near as much.

[CrazyCracka420]

Personally, for a pikeman/spearman class I think 15/21 or 15/24 is more than enough agility, and not enough str.

I'd much rather be 21/15 or 24/15.  5 athletics is good enough to get around the battlefield.  Having 7 or 8 PS is much better than 5.

Bamboo spear is a support weapon, mainly for stopping cavalry, or fighting with a teammate or two and just keep poking an enemy ground troop from a distance while your teammates close the gap.  So the damage dealt isn't really that big of a deal..it's a great support weapon.

[dodnet]

Bamboo spear is a support weapon, mainly for stopping cavalry

I find the bamboo spear too short against (good) cav. When stopping a horse I sometimes get hit with my long spear if my timing is bad, with the much shorter bamboo spear it gets even worse. Pike on the other side is way too inaccurate and slow. I hit a lot of teammates with this, much more than usually 

[Tanken]

Whoa whoa whoa.

OP

Ignore all comments above mine and just come hang out with KUTT for 2 days. You will have Builds and an understanding of your weapon.

Those who say you need Weapon Mastery for a Pike or Long Spear -- Wrong. I put 40 points of wpf into my Polearms and I go full pike or long spear build and put the rest into my sidearm.

Also, those who say you need 15/24 or 15/21 builds .. Sure, if you want to glance a lot and not use the Pike / Long Spear as intended. What you NEED to focus on is High Power Strike. I went 42/3 recently for shits-n-giggles and had 14 Power Strike. Lord almighty, I one-hit (just about) everything with a Masterwork Long Spear.

While the additional agility is okay... it's not necessary. If you can block and you can get used to the delay between striking and then being able to put up a block, you'll do fine.

Like I said though, just come to NA server and hang out with KUTT or just head to the duel server with me, I'll show you everything you need to know about both weapons and the builds that work best for all occasions!

(click to show/hide)

P.S. No offense to some of the above posters, I just find your opinions on Pikes and Long Spears incorrect as I have done the most unorthodox builds with it and still do quite well with it. The gens I did worst with Pike and Long Spear were the builds I used over 9 Agility.

[CrazyCracka420]

IMO, every single melee infantry class needs at least 9 agility (for 3 athletics).  Less than that and you're a sitting target.  I can see getting by with 1 athletics if you have a weapon that swings more than 2 directions, but you need some agility to get into position for the strike with a pike.  With 1 athletics, what do you do when someone closes the gap?  You can't do a jumping/spinning lol-stab with 1 athletics unless you're fighting a retard.

Playing with KUTT would be good for spearman/pikemen help, but I wouldn't get it from tanken (after reading his post)

[Tanken]

IMO, every single melee infantry class needs at least 9 agility (for 3 athletics).  Less than that and you're a sitting target.  I can see getting by with 1 athletics if you have a weapon that swings more than 2 directions, but you need some agility to get into position for the strike.  With 1 athletics, what do you do when someone closes the gap?  You can't do a jumping/spinning lol-stab with 1 athletics unless you're fighting a retard.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I actually had 0 Athletics and can do the exact same amount of Jump-Spin stabs and the same amount of maneuverability (albeit I can't run as fast or catch archers) but in a team-fight I'd prefer anywhere from 36/3 up to 42/3 any day. Athletics and WPM for a Pikeman is absolutely unnecessary. You can fight anyone with 0 Athletics and a Pike/Long Spear if you know what you're doing.

[Tanken]

Playing with KUTT would be good for spearman/pikemen help, but I wouldn't get it from tanken (after reading his post)

^

But that's because I will only teach my ways to already-experienced users and then make them even better!

[[ptx]]

I can see how a fullstr build could work, if you got reliable teammates(clanmates) working with you. Playing solo with random pubbies, though, you will want at least some athlethics. A 24/15 or a 21/18 build might be the most universal.

I once did a 9/30 dedicated long spear build (back when it had 9 str requirement), with 3PS and 10athl/wm. It was the most horrible gen ever.

[Digglez]

KUTT spear builds are so slow enemy shielders can wade in and assassinate you with ease, which we do on a regular frequent basis.  Different story for someone with 7 athletics, they are in and out of your range as a 1h too fast before you can get a good swing.

Strength spear builds are selfish and generally die easily against decent team.  Plus you dont have option to use a shield and hoplite if needed

[Gurnisson]

21/18, full WM, PS and Ath. My favourite by far and I believe Chase used that too. It gives you very good damage coupled with good maneuverability.