Poll

Should we nerf ranged?

NERF RANGED
270 (47.6%)
I LIKE TO BE GAY AND PLAY COUNTER STRIKE STYLE CRPG
297 (52.4%)

Total Members Voted: 566

Author Topic: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED  (Read 45362 times)

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Offline Adamar

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #360 on: June 04, 2012, 01:21:41 pm »
0
And this is why this mod is dying. Fuck C-RPG and it's Devs.

To the melee server with you!

Noone will play archer in the long run, if the class is made useless.

Offline bigsean

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #361 on: June 04, 2012, 06:04:30 pm »
+3
Fuck the devs, really?

The devs who spent time testing out ranged just to give some statistics to your ludicrous claims? If you guys actually played post-patch instead of whining you'll notice that this "unfairness" is already gone. With the death of banner stacking it is much harder for clan-less archers, but also any archer, to achieve the same sort of K:D ratio as before.

I attribute this to the fact that there is less steamroll from same-banner players, whether riding a clan's banner or a huge clan (such as PRO), who I assume are now somewhat forced to sticking with one clan banner unless they want stragglers. This was the closest thing to consistent teamwork we had in the servers, and now we have a good spread of units across both teams, especially classes that can often turn the tide.

Ranged can no longer hide behind a steamroll and now have to be smarter about their positioning, with less time spent lobbing shots from stationary positions. This does also mean, however, that ranged classes are now especially tougher for newer players.

If anything, this necessary change showcases just how weak archery has become. Perhaps less for HX and HA, as those were generally solo classes, and I can't speak for throwers as I have little experience with them. You've already forced us to play in a position where kiting is our only strength, and now you want to nerf headshot damage because "an arrow should bounce off a thick helmet". It just boggles the mind, you ask for that but never once mention that realistically an arrow should make you or a horse limp if hit in the leg for example. Don't ask for realism, or selective realism, that's impossible to balance while maintaining the same gameplay and style of warband.

The vast majority of archers suffered pre-patch, and now it is much more apparent than before. I ask the devs to watch ranged over the next few weeks, and perhaps consider a slight buff to bring the difficulty more in line for the majority out there. Please do not be deterred by people who obviously have a bias and suggest ideas with only 10 minutes of STF archery under their belt, if that. Also, take the scores of the handful (literally) of excellent, dedicated archers with a grain of salt (although even these players are having a tough time as well). It would be ludicrous to balance 2H or polearms due to a few great players, and I ask that we apply that same mentality to range.

P.S.

I've only skimmed through the topic, but I notice two reoccurring ideas. My opinion, as a dedicated archer for many months, follows;

1) Make archers more melee viable

Not a bad idea, but has some downfalls. First, a class should never be forced into hybridization or a different playstyle. If someone wants to be a dedicated archer, they should have that choice. I also fear that this would lead to a lot more melee-archer hybrids, leading to some difficult balance issues.

2) Reduce headshot damage by 10%

This one's a joke. How often does an archer get a headshot? I'd estimate about 5% of the time, more if using a weaker bow + high accuracy build, but still very low. Limb shots already do little damage, and headshots don't always kill even when they do land. Headshot damage definitely does not need a nerf, it is a good reward if you have the skill to land such a shot, which very few do. A nerf like this would do away with the weaker bow builds and force archers into an even narrower niche-build.
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Offline Zanze

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #362 on: June 04, 2012, 06:09:41 pm »
+1
I don't exactly like Idlewild much, but I do support his post.

Put 2-3 points into shield and use one to get yourself into combat. A bunch of Acre guys do this and it drastically increases their survivability. (The ones who don't end up getting shot to death the moment they leave the shieldwall)

Stop whining that your 2h hero class that is as slow as molasses is getting shot by archers. That's what happened to them irl, that's whats going to happen to them ingame. Problem? Stop wading into the open in your full plate, it may take a few more shots to hit you but it really isn't that hard.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 06:27:04 pm by Zanze »

Offline Bobthehero

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #363 on: June 05, 2012, 02:55:28 am »
0
Zanze, IRL ''slow 2h molasses'' weren't not that slow and were mostly arrow proof, unlike now.

And I will not put 2-3 points in shields  (because I can't) if archer don't change their builds (to have more melee capacities, but still be at a disadvantage when I reach them), both sides should adapt.
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Offline Havoco

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #364 on: June 05, 2012, 03:08:15 am »
+2
Sometimes I wish there was no slot system and everyone used hybrid builds.
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Offline OpenPalm

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #365 on: June 05, 2012, 03:51:01 am »
0
Able to hit anything without most people beign able to fight back?

LOL

Like everyone worth their salt has been saying, NOT IF YOU HAVE A SHIELD.  Or MOVE AROUND TRYING TO DODGE.  The only way we get to shoot a person is if they stay perfectly still, or don't vary their movement enough (if you're a decent archer), or get lucky (ie they run into the arrow). 

You realize that archers get between 30-45 arrows... and get like 1-2 kills a round?  6-12 arrows get to hit enemies... that's one in five arrows hitting an enemy.  Archery is really, really inaccurate.  Did you know if you're in first person view, the arrows hit a different place relative to the reticule than in third person view?

It's not like I'm biased.  I mostly play 2h with a shield.  But I also have had several ranged accounts.  If  you play with a 2h character that does not use a shield, it's a tradeoff you are making.  You are more vulnerable to ranged, at the tradeoff is that you can 1-shot everyone under level 20. 

Bob, I'm assuming you're BobtheHeroWhals that I've seen on siege/battle.  Running around in full plate with a mallet, getting top kills on your team consistently.  How are you seriously complaining about ranged?  Do you think you should be invincible with no counter?  Sorry mate, that's not how this game works.   :wink:
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 04:05:39 am by OpenPalm »
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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #366 on: June 05, 2012, 04:17:30 am »
0
I play a 1h no shield actually, the maul and plate is when I am on defense most of the time.

I also have an archer alt, Not_Bobthehero_Whals, might have seen her, don't use her much, but by now I could have retired her hadn't I respec my side arm wpf to 1h.

As for the first person comment, well, I never play in third person, so I wouldn't know.

I can't allow points in skill shield, I don't have any avaible and I don't want to change my build, since y'know the point of cRPG is being able to play the character you want (excepter a plated character, because plate is the bane of everything), I an do fine agaisn't people in melee, okay-ish (30% success rate I'd say) vs cav when I stick with my Long Espada and proper jump stabbing, however I am mostly powerless agaisn't archer, while they can shoot me at their leisure, that sucks.

I am not agaisn't having people countering me, but I'd like to stand a minimum of change agaisn't my counter (just like a shield can beat a mauler or an axeman sometimes), rather than being pew pew'd to death.

And lastly, I have no WPF in 2h or in poles, I just like having a sidearm to my puny sword.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 04:22:37 am by Bobthehero »
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Offline OpenPalm

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #367 on: June 05, 2012, 05:01:39 am »
+1
You can't try to change other classes because of a weakness in your particular build.
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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #368 on: June 05, 2012, 10:32:47 am »
0
On the other hand a build that can take mine out without me being able to do anything is better, right?
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Offline Kafein

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #369 on: June 05, 2012, 10:34:31 am »
0
Why not? It's a prety simple tactic for two coordinated archers to bring down a shielder, anything wrong with it?

Yes, there are no counters to archers.

Cav die with an arrow in the horse's head, then in their body when downed, shielders get shot around their shield, shieldless melee get shot.



The ONLY way to kill archers is to swarm them. If you think that is fine, well, you are an idiot :)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 10:37:37 am by Kafein »

Offline OpenPalm

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #370 on: June 05, 2012, 01:57:15 pm »
0
On the other hand a build that can take mine out without me being able to do anything is better, right?

Archery takes practice and skill, same as all the other classes.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #371 on: June 05, 2012, 02:27:10 pm »
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On the other hand a build that can take mine out without me being able to do anything is better, right?

That's a weakness in your build. You chose PS over PD and so suffer the consequences  :wink: If your team wasn't good enough to kill the enemies archers, then you just have to suffer.

Yes, there are no counters to archers.

Cav die with an arrow in the horse's head, then in their body when downed, shielders get shot around their shield, shieldless melee get shot.



The ONLY way to kill archers is to swarm them. If you think that is fine, well, you are an idiot :)

That's not true. There's only been 1 or 2 archers that I can't catch with my hoplite build which is 21 agi and 7 ath. That's whilst wearing Pranoia armour and carrying a huscarl shield. I can out run most builds, even a lot of light archers. I've never had problems with them.

Offline bigsean

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #372 on: June 05, 2012, 04:28:06 pm »
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Yes, there are no counters to archers.

Cav die with an arrow in the horse's head, then in their body when downed, shielders get shot around their shield, shieldless melee get shot.



The ONLY way to kill archers is to swarm them. If you think that is fine, well, you are an idiot :)

Cause it's soooo easy to hit a fast moving horse's head right?

Natural counters:
Shielders
Cav
Any other range class (including cav ranged)

if you're serious, stick to beta testing holy crap
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Offline Adamar

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #373 on: June 05, 2012, 04:56:05 pm »
+2
Yes, there are no counters to archers.

There are counters, shield, evasion and cav. You'll only have a hard time if you're outnumbered, obviously.

Cav die with an arrow in the horse's head, then in their body when downed, shielders get shot around their shield, shieldless melee get shot.

Actually, naked horses are surviving headshots the way they are now, despite being hard to hit, if the rider evades. Shielders only lose to archers if they're outnumbered, or unskilled. Shieldless melee evades, and will survive a few hits from the archer before catching up with him and 1 hit-killing him.

The ONLY way to kill archers is to swarm them. If you think that is fine, well, you are an idiot :)

No. You can swarm them, run up to them with a shield or an evasive behaviour, or surprise them form behind while they're shooting. This if you're a pure inf.
Overall, archery is not fine. It's not neary as rewarding as other classes, where a skilled and intelligent player gets 10-1 relatively easely. As an archer you're largely dependent on luck and support(from your kind).

The major problem with archery or cavaly, for that matter, are lazy meleers who keep demanding more ass wiping from the devs, instead of enjoying the favoured position they always had in this mod. You shamelessly demand an easier gaming experience, at the expence of other players who keep adapting for the love of the game and their class.

If you think nerfing archers more is of benefict to the game, you're the idiot and you're not helping anyone.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: SAVE CRPG! NERF RANGED
« Reply #374 on: June 05, 2012, 05:21:13 pm »
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Overall, archery is not fine. It's not neary as rewarding as other classes, where a skilled and intelligent player gets 10-1 relatively easely. As an archer you're largely dependent on luck and support(from your kind).

bagge scores way better as archer than as infantry or cav. It all depends on how you are a player. You can be a terrifying force on the battlefield as an archer if you're good at tracking shots and have good awareness.
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