Movement speed and running speed

[owens]

Just looking at the character builder page and reading the pop up description when i noticed agility increases movement speed and athletics increases running speed.

Is there any difference? Is initial speed or pre-run speed (walk) improved by agility and not movement?

I also noticed that strength reduces weight penalty, so at which weight total or weapon or gear weight (I dont know how it works) are athletics/agility builds slower. I am interested in top speed backpedal speed and of course initial speed and acceleration.

[Duvain]

i used to run an agility build with 21 agility and medium armor and i recently respecced to a str build with only 12 agility... the top speed seems to be almost the same but the initial speed up is slower, and i run faster up hills ladders etc. it's kinda sad how terrible agility is unless you're some spamtana cloth tard build

[owens]

^Thanks this matches my own experience.

I recently made a 18/21 build and i found that when using lamelar armor I was fast before I started to pour on the str. Eventually at lvl thirty with 18str my character is just as fast with heraldic mail. It is disappointing that agility builds are so pathetic.


Maybe what classifies as light-medium armour needs to be reviewed in relation to agility builds.

[Ptolemy]

That's because 18/21 isn't an agility build. It just has 3 points more agility, it's a balanced build. You don't become an agility build until you've got at least 24 agility and to be an agi whore you need at least 27.

What's the difference at that level? Actually it's quite dramatic.

[Black Wind]

That's because 18/21 isn't an agility build. It just has 3 points more agility, it's a balanced build. You don't become an agility build until you've got at least 24 agility and to be an agi whore you need at least 27.

What's the difference at that level? Actually it's quite dramatic.

18:21 Is an agility-biased balanced build. Balanced to a degree, but still biased none-the-less. So before you start shooting statistics out, atleast be specific.

I thought other non-PK members would know simple Mount & Maths. How wrong I was. Really though a balanced build would have the same attribute count on either stat. That's how balance works.

If you're that un-PK, and need it really dumbed down I'll provide an example that PK's use to talk to the greater (lesser on the skill perspective) community, who are completely dumbfounded by our theories and Mount & Science, and godly skill levels.

So here goes, you can read it more than once if necessary (I understand if it is for a lowly non-PK):
• Get a see-saw mechanism.
• Put 19 potatoes on each side, one side being strength, the other being agility (for this build, there's an odd number, so you can be one of the potatoes, and vegetate on a side of your choosing, because that's what non-PK's do; vegetate)
• Observe the balance, a 50:50 (or close to) weight distribution or 180 degree line on the axis of the seesaw.

Now, factor in your so-called, "18:21 ... Balanced" build, and I can assure you, the axis will not be even.



------------------
Lecture over.

I'm still surprised you don't know first year Mount & Maths, I learned that when I was younger and less experienced (but still globally the best),

By: IncrediblySkillful, the best there is.

[Leshma]

ATH is only useful if you wear light to medium armor (bellow 12 weight). Wear something heavier and you're wasting your ATH.

[Duvain]

ATH is only useful if you wear light to medium armor (bellow 12 weight). Wear something heavier and you're wasting your ATH.

yeah pretty much lol. btw leshma that girls muscles give me a boner is that a pic of you?

[Zisa]

That's because 18/21 isn't an agility build. It just has 3 points more agility, it's a balanced build. You don't become an agility build until you've got at least 24 agility and to be an agi whore you need at least 27.

What's the difference at that level? Actually it's quite dramatic.

Lies.
What is dramatic is how much you are gimping yourself when:
it rains
climbing any slope (up or down)
you carry a weapon longer then your dick
you walk on a wood surface
etc

[Kelugarn]

I was 18/21 for 3 gens, and recently I've tried 21/18, 24/15, and now 27/12. I have to say that the extra damage from higher PS is nice when I'm fighting a bunch of blind scrubs, but when it comes down to fighting dueling or fighting good players higher agi is much nicer. The movement bonus from just having more agi is great for using footwork to position for hilt-slashes and making incoming attacks glance off, and when I'm in battle the 7 ath helps in chasing down archers and escaping from 1v20 situations. It's still just a matter of preference but I wouldn't go and say that stacking agi is gimping yourself, it's just a different play style and experience, and I personally do quite well with a higher agi build.

[Ptolemy]

blah blah not understanding that "balanced build" is actually a range of builds from about 18/21 to 21/18 blah blah blah

1 more point in PS or 1 more point in ATH over an 18/18 balanced build really makes very little difference and isn't enough to differentiate between two people. Do math all you want, in practical terms there's no real difference.

blah blah insert things that nerf every build (minus possably cavalry) blah blah

The difference between 6 ATH (18 agi) and 9 ATH (27 agi) is dramatic, on a hill or on the flat it's noticable. It's not like you're going to run uphill and the person you're running away from/running towards is running on a flat, they're getting the same problems as you are. Sure you're softer and take less hits, but you're faster so dodge more - if you think being able to dodge more effectively is gimping yourself, then I pity you.


In the last 4 months I've played my main on 18/18, 18/24, 15/27 and 12/30, all 2hander (minus the first, which was a 2h/archer hybrid).
18/24 Gives more damage, but is definitely slower than the other two, it's very noticable.
15/27 Is faster and does less damage but I actually don't miss that one more point in PS at all if I'm honest and this build will allow you to catch more of those fleeing archers whom usually have 7 or 8 ATH.
12/30 Is beautiful for chasing people down, but you do feel like your armour is made of paper.

Of the three, my personal preference is 15/27 and it's what I'm going to be using from now on.

[Vkvkvk]

I was 18/21 for 3 gens, and recently I've tried 21/18, 24/15, and now 27/12. I have to say that the extra damage from higher PS is nice when I'm fighting a bunch of blind scrubs, but when it comes down to fighting dueling or fighting good players higher agi is much nicer. The movement bonus from just having more agi is great for using footwork to position for hilt-slashes and making incoming attacks glance off, and when I'm in battle the 7 ath helps in chasing down archers and escaping from 1v20 situations. It's still just a matter of preference but I wouldn't go and say that stacking agi is gimping yourself, it's just a different play style and experience, and I personally do quite well with a higher agi build.

Stopped reading after the hiltslash, not only is it a stupid ass fucking bogus mechanic that's boring to fight against, it can easily be done by a 36/3 build in heavy armor unless you're fighting a backpedaler in which case even with 10 athletics you couldn't properly hilt slash.


@Ptolemy, on anything angled or the patch of shit that slows you down, strenght builds have the advantage, the loss of speed is percentage based, so someone with 3 athletics will be able to catch up to someone with 9 athletics, and as we all know, the mapmakers fucking love their patch of slowing goo.

I play with 9 athletics and I enter a castle, slowed to a crawl. Hit a patch of grass, slowed to a crawl, hit X slowed to a crawl, hit Y slowed to a crawled, and so on.

[Kelugarn]

I would also like to point out that there are ways to help soften the penalties from moving up slopes and terrain changes. Running along zig-zag patterns across hills and other inclines allow you to outpace slower, lower agi/ath builds.

[Torben]

people also tend to forget the weight penalty being reduce by str.  so 9 athl and 12 str with medium-high armor  might not be faster than 7athl and 21 str with the same armor.

[owens]

Thank you Black wind.

These new players do not understand the extent to which PK has taken the science of build engineering.

It seems that Agility builds should be reserved for UAM (PK's skinny cousin).


My point is that a balanced build is faster with what PK regards as medium armour than an agility build. PK understands the mechanics, the maths and the real world implications. We are looking now to hone our knowledge and expertise down to a micrometer point.

 So if you can answer my question it would be much appreciated. 

[WITCHCRAFT]

ATH is only useful if you wear light to medium armor (bellow 12 weight). Wear something heavier and you're wasting your ATH.

I had a 18/21 Crossbow/2H hybrid. With really light armor and 7 athletics, I could outrun pretty much anything that wasn't a 3/33 dagger joke build or a horse. If I went up to even sarranid leather armor, I noticed a drop in speed.