1h stab

[Son Of Odin]

After the 1h player has skill more than average shielder spammer and goes non- shield, he is pretty damn annoying opponent to duel. I mean goddamn if he knows how to block, you just can't hit him. Delayed attacks won't work because then you probably get left swing to your head. If you try to outreach him, you are getting slashed from 1h rightswing that outreaches you, trololoo. Stab and you get stunned and left swing to your head.

So yeah 1h actually should glance from time to time like it does now. If you have practised 1h enough, you have absolutely no problems to be a killing machine.

[Vexus]

Try playing with a thrusting 1h sword before speaking odin.

Espada's swings are weak while it has a good damaging thrust but thanks to the stupid 1h thrust animation it glances so easily you have to turn on most of your thrusts unlike the other weapons even if my friggen sword has 31 pierce!

Saying 1h is not weak or anything has nothing to do with 1h stab animation glancing more than the other weapon styles together.

[San]

Complaining about losing to higher skilled opponents doesn't really mean any justification about what 1h "should" do. I think getting block stunned and being prone to kicks are enough for one to have some sort of offensive advantage among equally skilled opponents.

If you focus on keeping the left swing in check, overhead is relatively quick yet still has a wacky hitbox, and right swing is not very good unless used in specific situations.


In actual battle, block stun makes it even more terrible, though.

[Vibe]

1h underdog in dueling? Thats a new...

Outranged by 2h stab, stepping in and out of range, come in close get kicked, weapon stun, lower damage means more hits to kill someone. Those are facts. Any 2h duelist will best a 1h if they are of the same skill (ofcourse both skilled enough). Simple as is.

After the 1h player has skill more than average shielder spammer and goes non- shield, he is pretty damn annoying opponent to duel. I mean goddamn if he knows how to block, you just can't hit him. Delayed attacks won't work because then you probably get left swing to your head. If you try to outreach him, you are getting slashed from 1h rightswing that outreaches you, trololoo. Stab and you get stunned and left swing to your head.

So yeah 1h actually should glance from time to time like it does now. If you have practised 1h enough, you have absolutely no problems to be a killing machine.

What you said goes for every weapon group. Also, while 1h have their left swing, 2h have a much easier time pulling of hiltslashes that connect as early as 1h right swings, if not even earlier.

The bias in this thread is incredible (specially BlackMilk, on a good way to reach Thomek-level of 2h bias).
I've been saying 1h stab glances a ton and that it is the worst of 2h/pole/1h to duel with since I was a 2h. Then again this is how cRPG is, people whine with whatever you beat them the fuck up with. Might aswell grab a fucking sickle and own a few people, see what kinds of posts come after.

[Ronin]

I've got a masterwork long espada eslavona and it was magnificent.
Knightly arming is a more expensive sword than nordic champion's sword and I think that's for a reason. I had used a masterwork knightly arming with 0 ps and 1 wpf, and it was still superb.
Not to mention, thrust is the fastest move and makes wonders against no armored opponents.
The thrust is also good to use with the speed bonus against heavily armored foes. Nothing like a good and fast piercing attack, which has also great reach.

1h Stab is good. It is my favourite move as a onehander and very effective in my opinion. What gurnisson said is completely true.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I've run a few onehander alts (making my third), I've used the following weapons: Side sword (due to awesome looks, don't care about the fact that it's slightly up), and Italian falchion.

My thoughts on the stabs:
 - Side sword requires you to move slightly backwards when stabbing which will cause a negative speed bonus and lower damage which in return will give it a chance to glance, if you move backwards then slightly forward with your sidesword it'll probably glance aswell or miss, depending on how your opponent moves.
 - Italian falchion allows you to stab anywhere, even facehug range, in a way the short reach is an advantage if you use it right, however this weapon normally isn't good at all due to having to enter kickdistance in order to land a hit.

Generally I do think stabs need a slight buff in when they don't glance, as if you don't hit with the exact tip of the weapon you'll both glance and be stunned. (but onehand stab is still my favorite onehander anim due to looking awesome, and most people fail to block it)

[Ronin]

I've run a few onehander alts (making my third), I've used the following weapons: Side sword (due to awesome looks, don't care about the fact that it's slightly up), and Italian falchion.

My thoughts on the stabs:
 - Side sword requires you to move slightly backwards when stabbing which will cause a negative speed bonus and lower damage which in return will give it a chance to glance, if you move backwards then slightly forward with your sidesword it'll probably glance aswell or miss, depending on how your opponent moves.
 - Italian falchion allows you to stab anywhere, even facehug range, in a way the short reach is an advantage if you use it right, however this weapon normally isn't good at all due to having to enter kickdistance in order to land a hit.

Generally I do think stabs need a slight buff in when they don't glance, as if you don't hit with the exact tip of the weapon you'll both glance and be stunned.

Italion falchion? Oh come on, it is a weapon designed for swings not stabs. I do used that awesome sword and used thrust only when it is needed. Can't talk about the side sword as I had no experience with it.

But hey, I think long reach is needed for a thrust based one handed weapons. Which is why I suggest using arming swords or the long espada eslavona.
I tried both the espada elsavona and the long espada eslavona, and long espada eslavona was particularly better despite having less damage. Even the 95 reach of the side swing is not adequate enough to decide one handed thrust is broken or not.

[Son Of Odin]

Try playing with a thrusting 1h sword before speaking odin.

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Try coming with decent argument Vexus. I want to inform you all that I have played every class I can think of except horse thrower. I'm not going to either because it really isn't a class (and I know Zlisch is going to minus this post for that ). Including 3 generations of 1h builds with my alt.

1h has the superiority in speed. Yes you can't hiltslash with it like 2h and pole, but you have better spammability for noobs. You don't neccessarily need to learn how to hiltslash. You only have to know when you are glancing and when not.

I see that people often fall into thinking that 1h is so superior in speed that you can mindlessly spam it and still win everyone. It's not the case. A patient 1h blocking and counter attacking with smart moves and intelligent "spam" always wins. Onehanded weapons need the most patience of all melee weapons. The players mostly completely ignore the good, effective ways to play when they hold onto their stubborn idea about how 1h can outspam every weapon there is even if their timing is completely shit.

1h is not class for everyone. I realized it isn't my cup of tea when I found out how you have to play it correctly. But for someone who has the mindset for it and someone who likes to play that style it is perfectly viable, even the stab which is fast enough.

[Gurnisson]

Try playing with a thrusting 1h sword before speaking odin.

Espada's swings are weak while it has a good damaging thrust but thanks to the stupid 1h thrust animation it glances so easily you have to turn on most of your thrusts unlike the other weapons even if my friggen sword has 31 pierce!

Saying 1h is not weak or anything has nothing to do with 1h stab animation glancing more than the other weapon styles together.

I have a one-handed alt that I'm doing very well with. I started out with Italian Sword, moved to Grosse Messer, moved to Iberian Mace and ended up with Espada Eslavona (short one). The espada is truly stunning, it gives you and almost awlpike-like thrust damage-wise, it's length when stabbing is nothing to be sniffed at and it's got an almost instant animation which makes many people miss their block. It's also good for the held wiggle-thrust, and the weak cut is okay since held head-hits still deal decent damage.. And to answer your question, I rarely glance at all. If I do, it's my own mistake, just like it is with you other guys, even though you can't see it yourself.

Outranged by 2h stab, stepping in and out of range, come in close get kicked, weapon stun, lower damage means more hits to kill someone. Those are facts. Any 2h duelist will best a 1h if they are of the same skill (ofcourse both skilled enough). Simple as is.

True that 1H is outranged, but saying that you will get kicked while moving closer in is bullshit. If you're doing the left swing/overhead feint/hold spam while facehugging then you're obviously in danger of getting kicked, but that's a choice of your own. Two-handers and polearms are also in risk of getting kicked if they start facehugging to hiltslash/hold+wiggle etc. but it's just a risk to get a hit in, just like with a 1h. You don't have to be within kick-range to be deadly with a one-hander, you're perfectly fine with all your attacks outside its range. Weapon stun is overrated, anyone with half a brain can block twice, and you can make use of the excessive held overheads with your left swings like Teeth said. Lower damage is mostly true, but it's easier to hit heads with 1h left swing than any other animation, partly makes up for it. Also, people seem to have a lot harder time blocking my 1H alt because it hits so much quicker than my polearm/2h

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Tom you should crank up the ath and get some awesome rags for armour then you can do shuffle stab of lols.

Charge, stop, stair, charge some more, stab.

[Vexus]

What I wanted to say is that 1h thrust animation tends to glance more unless you turn even if the enemy is infront of you, turning a little makes it connect more. Saying you rarely glance doesn't change the fact that 1h stab has the highest chance on glancing among all the weapon styles available...

If my sword had low damage on stab I would understand it but it's not.

Anyway these types of threads been coming for ages now and nothing has happened sadly.

[Ronin]

What I wanted to say is that 1h thrust animation tends to glance more unless you turn even if the enemy is infront of you, turning a little makes it connect more. Saying you rarely glance doesn't change the fact that 1h stab has the highest chance on glancing among all the weapon styles available...

If my sword had low damage on stab I would understand it but it's not.

Anyway these types of threads been coming for ages now and nothing has happened sadly.

Vexus it's your own fault. It has nothing to do with the damage, gurnisson explained when it glances. At the very beginning or at the very end of your thrust, it always glances against some proper armor. This is why a long weapon is better suited for using thrust attacks. That's why I said long espada eslavona is better than espada eslavona. Also 1 hand has to be played differently than other melee classes, as son of odin said. You should know that your weapon is much more shorter and play accordingly.

[Vexus]

Then explain to me why say pole thrust animation on weapons as long as 1h weapons don't glance?

Oh, right the animation.

1h stab animation has it's flaws and that's what I am saying.

[Ronin]

There is no difference between polearm thrust, twohanded thrust and one handed thrust. It's just that you notice this with one handed thrust more frequently because of three reasons I think:
1-One handed weaopons are shorter, meaning it is easier for your opponent to go to the end of your thrust (or just outreach you). This is the biggest factor.
2-It has lesser damage, meaning it always has a higher chance of being glanced depending on your foe's armor.
3-Onehanded is faster, meaning it might be harder to do timing. This is sometimes works the other way, but no matter what it plays a role at certain conditions; mostly when a non-experienced player uses it.

[Son Of Odin]

Then explain to me why say pole thrust animation on weapons as long as 1h weapons don't glance?

Oh, right the animation.

1h stab animation has it's flaws and that's what I am saying.

I'll explain why it makes sense. Polearm type weapons are meant to pierce armor and crush them. They are held with two hands for extra power. 1h weapon forces you to use lighter type of weapon which glances off the heaviest armor if you don't hit the right spot (just try to stab the head. It should be rather easy with 1h stab animation). It isn't meant to pierce everything. Wouldn't it be quite ridicilous to see a 1h stabbing and landing every hit with ease against heavily armored opponent? As I said earlier, with 1h you have to think more and be more patient. 1h fighters also have to be picky on what kind of damage type they want to use because in their class it really starts to matter against those plate monsters if they use cut damage weapon.