Author Topic: Trade Cut  (Read 3941 times)

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Offline Leshma

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 08:05:57 pm »
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It's 5% of a trade, yes, that is unbearable, hurt poor players like me who don't have a single 3+ item, and can't make cash on the market due to the fucking taxation.

Well, it's not like you're playing this for 1.5-2 years like some people (have no idea when you started playing, basing it on your registration date). But you seem to be decent player, unlike that Angellore or whatever his name is, who stole other people's looms.

When I wanted everything loomed, I've decided to put some effort in it. That included playing with cheap weapons and wearing light armor. I did that for half of my 13 gens, actually I think that 50% of all my playing time was using cheap gear.

Make a decent build, pick decent but cheap weapons and you will have fun and earn gold. Throwing is expensive, just like cav, especially mounted cav.

My suggestion is fake peasant, with pitchfork, 21/18 build, 6 wpf in polearms. Just wear something better than shirts but something that looks similar. Like white gambeson, for example. Pitchfork is truly powerful weapon, you can even be part time hoplite with it and some cheap but decent shield. Playing with pitchfork is something I really miss. Many cav would rush me, making a huge mistake.

Also good idea is light armor and Shortened Military Scythe, but in that case you can use Long Spear because upkeep won't be much higher.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 08:09:45 pm »
+1
As Meow said, there will be more gold sinks, some should be very interesting.

The devs should take note of other games and see that social status type stuff never hits a satiation point for some people. Basically add cosmetic stuff in exchange for gold. Not Hats necessarily, but rare coloured dye tubs or patterns, saches, capes, plumes, stuff like that. You can probably take 1 type of helmet and give it 5 different plumes, each more rare or more expensive than the other. Just plop them in the store for crazy amounts of gold and people with the means will buy them so they stand out from the crowd and show off how wealthy they are
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 08:47:11 pm »
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Well, it's not like you're playing this for 1.5-2 years like some people (have no idea when you started playing, basing it on your registration date). But you seem to be decent player, unlike that Angellore or whatever his name is, who stole other people's looms.

When I wanted everything loomed, I've decided to put some effort in it. That included playing with cheap weapons and wearing light armor. I did that for half of my 13 gens, actually I think that 50% of all my playing time was using cheap gear.

Make a decent build, pick decent but cheap weapons and you will have fun and earn gold. Throwing is expensive, just like cav, especially mounted cav. (da fuq!?)

My suggestion is fake peasant, with pitchfork, 21/18 build, 6 wpf in polearms. Just wear something better than shirts but something that looks similar. Like white gambeson, for example. Pitchfork is truly powerful weapon, you can even be part time hoplite with it and some cheap but decent shield. Playing with pitchfork is something I really miss. Many cav would rush me, making a huge mistake.

Also good idea is light armor and Shortened Military Scythe, but in that case you can use Long Spear because upkeep won't be much higher.
Leshma, you know my playstyle, I'm a HT, even if all my gear breaks and I go naked I'll stay HT, I've been making money so far this gen due to trading... also, those people who have played 1.5-2 years won't be hurt whatsoever by this shit, 'dem 13 3+ loom gen 10 people won't feel shit, all this does is stop new players from having a chance of getting rich through wise trading choices (talking about buying underprized, selling with a slight profit, not checking for typo's every ten seconds)... I'll still make money for HTing due to retiring and selling loompoints + me having quite two alts I play a lot and one of them will be ready to be sac'd soon, but still, this also removes (penalizes) shit like gambling due to the trade penalty and will generally only serve as an itch (like upkeep) for general average people, will hurt poor players trying to make cash, and won't mater whatsoever to any of the 1%rs.

Also, this will only drive item prices up as people trying to make money through good deals will now have to charge more to turn a profit and with enough people doing this they'll set the standard price which is constantly increased by 5%, and I thought everyone wanted lower prices, not higher... when I sold my loompoint and bought two 1+ items fairly cheap for all my gold (nodachi 'n' elite scimmy) not that far back I sold 'em earning like 70k in the process (in total), prices weren't skyrocketing, now I can't earn a little of small price changes, prices are gonna grow insanely by this. Earlier today I bought a loompoint for 630k, sold it on for 670k on an old pre-tax market offer, I earned 40k, if I hadn't abused a pretax offer and still sold for the same price my earning would've been 6,4k considering the 100 gold adding to market fee.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:58:56 pm by Zlisch_The_Butcher »
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Abay

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 09:04:19 pm »
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this cut sets a wall against inflation in the market and saves our moneys in theory, but i think that costs of loomed items or loom points will increase more (for maybe 2 months or less). then, the theory will start to work on its purpose. we will see
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 09:08:09 pm »
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this cut sets a wall against inflation in the market and saves our moneys in theory, but i think that costs of loomed items or loom points will increase more (for maybe 2 months or less). then, the theory will start to work on its purpose. we will see
The cut will cause a steadier price-rise than ever due to taxation on buy-selling which will cause a large prize increase rather fast.

Example is the 1+ items, the safest thing to do these kinda trades with before... since market came back up the typical lowest of 310k lightlances has been replaced with 350k items.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:10:10 pm by Zlisch_The_Butcher »
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 09:08:50 pm »
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Except the poor don't get the money from the tax in this case :P

Nor do they in real life. Whats your point?

It's 5% of a trade, yes, that is unbearable, hurt poor players like me who don't have a single 3+ item, and can't make cash on the market due to the fucking taxation.

Market is not to make money. It is to get items you want, in exchange for other items. The whole gold for loompoints so I can upkeep stupid builds thing is infuriating.
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Offline RibaldRon

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 11:22:40 pm »
+3
Many players started using marketplace like its stock market, buying low and selling high. It was pretty easy way to earn ten, hundred thousands of gold without much effort.

How many trades you saw asking item + gold, although item they wanted for it was in the same league as theirs. They just wanted quick and easy cash. And noobs were the ones who payed for it, with their hard earned gold.

This is a good way to put end to that.
As somebody who bought low and sold a little higher (still well under value) I can tell you that many noobs did not buy my items, in fact, most people who bought them (after quite some time, I might add) were people I recognized from the community, as already having a lot of money and generations.  These were often the same types of people that I would buy the items from in the first place.

Often, these items would be heirloomed to be worth more money.


Why am I telling you that?


Because new players, the ones this change supposedly benefits, can not afford to do this like older and established players still can.

Did anybody before ever gripe about the price on the market?  No, because without the tax anyone was able to pick up a little extra money by providing a service... i.e. upgrading an item to a more desirable/worthwhile status, or just picking up a cheap item and posting it for a bit more, to help ensure that it'll be there for when someone wants it just a bit more.


I think people get mad when others buy cheap items in any marketplace, but it's actually a pretty valuable service.  If people only purchased items they were going to use, prices would be incredibly low.  You might say that's a good thing, but most people wouldn't end up with all of the +3's they have, as an example.  Since items would not move as quickly, the selection would be very thin, and there would be no expensive items posted for that "gotta have it now" crowd who buy it on impulse.


If anything, this system is probably BETTER for me, since I have way more gold than worth of looms.  Lots of people invested in looms long-term, and if the idea of deflation is going through, they're slowly going to get more and more screwed over in time.  With that said I still don't like this system, as you have to be actively trading to see any reduction in gold from it.  I think it's been well covered that long-time traders still have enough gold/looms to make the risky calls and still make profit in light of this.  I, as a small-time trader, am not willing to put forth the time/gold involved considering the risk and taxes, unfortunately.




Cosmetic items, I would say, are a much better solution.  Most MMOs either launch with a known gold-sink, or introduce optional ones.  I.E. player housing, when introduced, is a gigantic gold sink.  Alternatively, some MMOs have offered programs where you delete all of your junk in exchange for points.  These combat flooding, inflation AND are completely optional.  Changing the status quo is not a good idea.
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Offline Dutchydave

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 11:43:57 pm »
+1
Well expect to see plenty more money eaters as Meow promised.This aint going to stop hard core traders making gold,infact now they can list 25 trade offers for only 2500g per week it will give them more chance to turn items over.They will probally make less in 1 transaction but will make more transactions per week.

A lot of people I know are already getting sick of crpg and the market place is the only reason they still bother,nerf their fun to much and watch the WOTR sales increase.

The whole idea behind this is totally communist.If you want to stop people making money on the market place,then why the f did you make a market place to start with,surley you guys had enough foresight to see people would trade just to make gold(we are talking about humans).Personally that aspect is my favorite part of crpg now there isnt a Aussie server.

The inflation wasnt a problem anyway,it didnt hurt the poor or new players as the loompoint value increased accordingly.Inflation is a fact of life and if you guys put a halt to it,then you have achieved what no government in history has been able to do.

This is not going to stop the desperate or dumb people selling crap cheap or buying gear that is over priced.Even if the prices of everything drops then the hard core traders make less,but due to deflation they make the same,derrrr.

If you dont want traders making money on a market place you designed,then get rid of gold trades all together and give players an option to sell there loompoint at what ever you consider a reasonable price. You devs have tried to be to smart here and taken the most confusing approach to fix this so called problem. My advice is make it more simple not more confusing,but it seems you are just making the same mistakes as all these silly governments running countrires over 1000's of years have made.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2012, 11:53:09 pm »
+1
Power to the small-time somewhat new traders! This tax is killing us! Trying to seperate the 1% from the 99% with a gigantic fucking brickwall! This is bullshit! I don't mind people being richer than me as long as I have a chance to through smart choices become just as rich oneday!
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Lichen

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2012, 12:21:26 am »
-1
As somebody who bought low and sold a little higher (still well under value) I can tell you that many noobs did not buy my items, in fact, most people who bought them (after quite some time, I might add) were people I recognized from the community, as already having a lot of money and generations.  These were often the same types of people that I would buy the items from in the first place.

Often, these items would be heirloomed to be worth more money.


Why am I telling you that?


Because new players, the ones this change supposedly benefits, can not afford to do this like older and established players still can.
The change does benefit noobs since there will be less old players swimming in gold able to largely ignore upkeep.  I don't think too many noobs work the market for profit unless they are selling a loom which is still simple and easy.


Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2012, 02:24:39 am »
+1
The change does benefit noobs since there will be less old players swimming in gold able to largely ignore upkeep.  I don't think too many noobs work the market for profit unless they are selling a loom which is still simple and easy.
First thing I did when I sold my loompoint was invest it in looms, what this change does is stop poor people from getting rich, it doesn't in anyway actually affect the 1% unless devs do a wipe.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2012, 02:32:21 am »
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It physically deletes gold from the economy and affects mostly those who do the most trades, who therefore will most likely be the most wealthy

Newbies might get less for something, but the prices will stabilise but with a steady gold sink to reduce some inflation
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2012, 06:54:29 am »
+1
I like how some people go super mad because their precious gold is being burned.

Feel free to up your prices by 5% so people buy from the guys who sell stuff cheaper instead.

Also I wonder how much though went into those replies since with more money sinks and less overall gold in ciculation prices will drop.
It's not supposed to instantly have an impact but it sure will have one.

This happened way too late and there already is way too much gold in circulation, this will be changed over time.

I don't see how new players will suffer from this if they just loom their stuff and start trading items or ONLY get 617500 gold for their first loompoint...

This will obviously not be the only money sink to come, there will be more and kinda different ones.

You guys know what this reminds me of?
The huge OMG UPKEEP whining :mrgreen:

What is the problem all this "money sink" business is addressing?

Also can the auction system be shut down until its ready to go live its got some awesome "features".

----------------------------------------------------

5% transaction tax can't beat the amount of money being generated by the player base through playing the game. They will just ditch more gear and grind a bit more to pump up their buying and selling and at a some point hit an obscene amount gold and be able to just piss 800k against the wall. So if this is some sort of attempt at in game balance it just isn't going to fly. Most of the guys I play with and hang out in TS with have complete sets of +3 gear and millions and million of gold... This isn't going to do what it seems to be intended to do, so what is it actually intended to do?

The devs aren't stupid no matter how angry they make me with some of there decisions but I just can't figure this out. WHAT IS IT DOING! AHHHH!

If people "avoiding" the upkeep system is the problem, invent a better system. Balance items harder. I don't know :I bah give me back me csites :...(
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 07:00:27 am by FRANK_THE_TANK »
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2012, 04:09:41 pm »
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Sure a money sink was needed and sure this hits newer players more; even if they trade less on market it will take them longer to accumulate looms just for their own gear now where the majority of old players who have their full sets + tradeable looms + money on the side just don't really care.

It's nice seeing something done in this regard but I just feel so many other good gold sink suggestions have been offered on these forums, hitting everyone but draining the coffers of the really rich more than the ones who already struggle.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Trade Cut
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2012, 04:21:46 pm »
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Don't forget how important tradable loom points will be for pure newbies. Most thorough bred newbs wouldn't go on the forum and sell their loom point, they would loom an actual item. Then they may find they don't really want that or they loom a bad item and sell a +1 for less than a loom point value. Or they loom an item 3 times, which is less efficient than buying the item yourself after selling loom points.

Getting to 31 then being able to simply sell the loom on the market is a really good addition for real newbs, they will generally end up more wealthy sooner, even if there is a 5% tax. The price will go up a bit to cover the tax but prices will generally not rise as quickly as before imo

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