Fetih 1453 (Fall of Constantinople)

[Adalwulf]

I think i'm falling in love!

Harafat I challenge you to a naked knife fight!

[the real god emperor]

Zombie topic...

[BASNAK]

Wow. Dat movie. Not really a big fan of movies portraying uberheroes slaughtering their evil enemies.
Except for 300, that movie will always be great (300 wasn't based on the battle of thermopoly, but a comic serie)

[donib]

A poor movie

[Abay]

Someone says it is an easy siege or 100k vs 1k etc... Yes, the siege is easy I accept. But the conditions are hard. If the pope could convince Germans, Frenchs and Englishmen, maybe Mehmet wouldnt decide to have that siege. It is like Turkey's Conquest of Cyprus in 1974 while England was guaranteeing Cyprus' independence seriously(At the end of war, England has still some lands in Cyprus' South  ). Well, at the end of Turkish Conquests, you always see the peace! If you really wonder this, just research on Turkish bureaucracy records since 1000s. If you say ''I dont have that much time'', you can see all cultures under Ottomans still live now. As you know, Selamun Aleykum means ''Peace be with you'' 

[Adamar]

How come the invaders are the good guys?

[the real god emperor]

How come the invaders are the good guys?

It changes time to time, no one will accept that the enemies are the good and you are the bad:) Fall of Constantinople, Conquest of Istanbul, depends on what ve you learned.The point is , gaining neutrality on history. I can't say Turks are the best zhehehe but no. Romans werent right too. They provoked Turkish princes against Sultans. Mehmet did something hath to be done Centuries ago for his country.

[Adamar]

Turks conquered the byzantine empire because they had to?   
Sometimes honesty is the best remedy. The Turks then where no less power hungry than the romans for example, and the byzantine people payed the tab. Somehow reshaping such horrible events into something good and justified doesn't seem right.

[Abay]

Turks conquered the byzantine empire because they had to?   
Sometimes honesty is the best remedy. The Turks then where no less power hungry than the romans for example, and the byzantine people payed the tab. Somehow reshaping such horrible events into something good and justified doesn't seem right.

The key is the real peace with Islam    You know, in those times, for example in England, if you were no catholic, they would burn you. But in Islam, that is not allowed. Everyone lives what they want, so Ottomans are mainly muslims but they keep orthodoxs, catholics, jews, indian religioners in their people. Especially Armenians were the best people that is no-muslim to the Ottomans. But please dont take the issu to Armenian-Turkish things. Big Powers show Turkish people as enemy of Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, Syrians, Georgians, Kurds, Bosnians, Serbians, Albanians, Hungarians but no, we are not hostile to those people. We lived with them in peace for 600 years. Big Powers do that cos there is still a possibility to build Ottomans in future. Those nations lived their best national welth when they were in Ottomans. If you can research on Ottoman bureaucracy records, you can see how much Ottomans spent for those nations. These records still exist. So, peace be with you aka Selamun Aleykum

[the real god emperor]

Turks conquered the byzantine empire because they had to?   
Sometimes honesty is the best remedy. The Turks then where no less power hungry than the romans for example, and the byzantine people payed the tab. Somehow reshaping such horrible events into something good and justified doesn't seem right.

You dont get one thing, there is not a good side or an evil side. Look at Abay, if you ve told this to him IRL, he would break your bones and piss on you ( maybe ) . Its between 2 Empires, and Ottomans were stronger. And yes, they had to. When Timurids screwed Ottomans up in Ankara, they had to. Cuz Timur wasnt born with Holy Blood. He was trying to gain it someway. And if we will keep on that topic, chocolate chip cookies were the good side too, if you were living in Germany... Please , try to think natural...

[Adalwulf]

The key is the real peace with Islam    You know, in those times, for example in England, if you were no catholic, they would burn you. But in Islam, that is not allowed. Everyone lives what they want, so Ottomans are mainly muslims but they keep orthodoxs, catholics, jews, indian religioners in their people. Especially Armenians were the best people that is no-muslim to the Ottomans. But please dont take the issu to Armenian-Turkish things. Big Powers show Turkish people as enemy of Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, Syrians, Georgians, Kurds, Bosnians, Serbians, Albanians, Hungarians but no, we are not hostile to those people. We lived with them in peace for 600 years. Big Powers do that cos there is still a possibility to build Ottomans in future. Those nations lived their best national welth when they were in Ottomans. If you can research on Ottoman bureaucracy records, you can see how much Ottomans spent for those nations. These records still exist. So, peace be with you aka Selamun Aleykum

Empires that consist of many cultures and religions need tolerance to them as well or there will never be peace. Something people still haven't learned yet. Examples such as former yugoslavia, lebanon ect. Of course the root of the problem is much deeper but it all comes down to the past and what happened a long time ago...Biggest scourge is still religion. Let's be reasonable now, there was no peace for 600 years. Nobody wants to be ruled by an outsider culture or power. I'm sure greek, serbs, armenians, bosnians and probably many others didn't want to be in the ottoman empire. But as the old saying goes, Might makes right.

[Abay]

Empires that consist of many cultures and religions need tolerance to them as well or there will never be peace. Something people still haven't learned yet. Examples such as former yugoslavia, lebanon ect. Of course the root of the problem is much deeper but it all comes down to the past and what happened a long time ago...Biggest scourge is still religion. Let's be reasonable now, there was no peace for 600 years. Nobody wants to be ruled by an outsider culture or power. I'm sure greek, serbs, armenians, bosnians and probably many others didn't want to be in the ottoman empire. But as the old saying goes, Might makes right.

You are totally wrong cos nationalism was not popular at these times. So, those nations were happy under Ottoman rules. Also, Ottomans are not nationalist, too. They only fight for Islam and peace. But I must say that Ottomans are not a religionist empire, too. They did many anti-islamist things in their government system for the balance in the empire. Anatolia(Islamic and Turk culture) lived with the worst welth in the Ottoman borders. Ottomans always spent the higher investments to the other people(non-muslims). You are a christian and your imperialism sense is different from us believe me. Islamic imperialism has different parameters. They are totally different.

[the real god emperor]

Abay is fully right at this point but we must accept one thing, Ottomans were clever barbarians that converted the religion of Christian children  to Islam to make them fight against their own people.They murdered too many villagers, looted women after battles. Much more worse than Crusades i think. But, Ottomans were the greatest empire until 16th century.So Macedonians,Greeks,Arabs,Jews were totally happy with Ottoman Goverment. But of course it was like Islam > Everything Else all the time.However no one wanted justice at this point.Maybe fear of cut off his/her head...

[Abay]

Ottomans were clever barbarians that converted the religion of Christian children  to Islam to make them fight against their own people.They murdered too many villagers, looted women after battles. Much more worse than Crusades i think.

I must deny here. Cos Ottoman central army has great discipline of situations after a battle. If they do that, they will be head cut off. They earn great moneys, they have great reputations. They are not like a normal warriors. If you say it for localpowers like hungarian delis or crimean warriors, u may be right but it is only true for a small part of the army.
Just think. Ottoman army has warriors they are not feared of dead thanks to Islam and do they need raping and pillaging? Your thesis has a huge paradox here. As I said, your telling may be right for only small local powers and they will be punished by local Kadis if the people complain about them.
Ottomans never kill anybody in a battle if the enemy is not a solider. They protect and save the civilans always.

[the real god emperor]

In Ottoman law if you conquer someplace with a fight or battle, you can loot everything you want as a Janissary or Spahi . Cuz you deserve it. All children under age 5 would be converted to a faithful Islam warrior to fight against infidels.In all Turkish history books it looks like this; "If the children doesnt want to leave his/her family, they can stay and if the child has no brothers or sister he/she wont be taken." Fuck it. Not true at all.
Maybe its right they earnt shit loads of money and glory.But they killed their OWN families who knows... When someone asks my history, i wouldnt answer Faithful Great Ottoman Empire, i would answer Huns from steppes, they were more honorable and glorious people.The only point i like about Ottomans, we live in where the lands they conquered.I am a Humanist and i think that way