Cav balance overhaul

[Torben]

the greatest discontent concerning cav is its ability to attack the spawning and regrouping infantry at rounds beginning.  this is where the most rage inducing and unfair kills are done,  and no cav-ability concerning nerf can prevent this.

but nerfs there were a many,  all of those towards a greater balancing of all classes,  and most helped making the game better.
the lance angle nerf was one of them,  and surely makes it easier for infantry to counter cav,  however this change greatly decreased the experience of cav vs cav fights.


my proposition now is,  to give this a shot:

bring back the old lancing angle,  and divide spawning into two periods:  up to 6:20,  infantry spawns,  than in the next 10 seconds  cav spawns.

this will hinder the feasting of cav on the unaware,  infantry will have time to regroup and get ready for a real fight.



this change will do more to balance the field in battles than any nerf ever given to cav.

[Tzar]

bring back the old lancing angle,

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[Fartface]

Getting killed bij cav through the entire round sucks , so make it so that cav get old lance back but unable to kill infantry till after 6:30.

[Kafein]

Getting killed bij cav through the entire round sucks , so make it so that cav get old lance back but unable to kill infantry till after 6:30.

Nope


(yes I stopped trying to tell between troll and serious posts about cav nerfs)

[Aleskander]

LOL

[owens]

What if the spawn points were somewhat fortified on some maps. I think cav does need a change horses are too fragile and are capable of complex manouveres.

Horses should have high top speed and good health. The damage and control of horseman is unrealistic.

[kinngrimm]

If you do the rework of all maps, then you could give starting positions a small hill. Cav charging uphill has a tougher time doing anything.

Concerning workload, the proposition about the spawn timing sounds fairly easy to include.
Perhaps even make it main inf(7:00), then ranged(6:55) inf then cav(6:45). That way main inf rushes to secure positions and can spot/scout for their ranged friends ahead. At last the ncav arrives, without bumping half the team to death and not able to spawnrape the opponents. Also ton a few smaller maps, the spawn is in reach of the infantry within 30 seconds. so having the safezones below 20 seconds should be sufficient.

I think that neither invulnerability nor an area where noone can be attacked,  would be a good thing or easy to be implemented.

Give awlpike attr back "usable with shield"(instead reduce damage of awlpike) or give ashwoodpike attr "sheatable"

[Torben]

fortified spawnpoints and hills and whatnot would be ok,  but this suggestion is not only to counter spawnrape,  but cavs rush to the enemies inf on its way to the battle.

the timeframe would have to be set so that cav is delayed sufficiantly,  and inf doesnt have time to spawnrape cav,  when it starts spawning ; )

thats why id suggest a mass spawn of inf (all at the same time, and than ofc later too if they were downloading or whatever) at some point,  than cav.

dont really see why ranged should be delayed?

also: dont forget the key point to this:
imo,  this would greatly reduce the feel of cavs opness (penis ^^ always makes me laugh) and would allow it to get back its sweet cav duel lanceing capabilities : )

the only concern i have,  is that a wider lanceangle would make 1h cav less viable again... what do you think?

[Rhygar666]

Iwas about to open a thread about cav and just saw this so im just gonna spam my shit here (sry torben )

First your Idea is fine letting cav spawn 10 seconds or something like that later, so they cant spawn rape so much

but we had another idea on our ts. i beli eve there will be cries from almost all cav after my post but well.


Lances - Couching:

Give lances a percentage to break, like normal lance not loomed 50% after each couch that it breaks.
with each loom level it decreases like 10 % to lets say 30% chance after each couch.


or another sugestion which i believe is harder to implent so it probably wont get in crgp anyway but oh well.

give lances a health sign, like shields i mean if the lifes gone after like 2 or 3 couches then it breaks and you got to use another weapon.
Cav needs to be more careful rather think while playing if they just randomly try breaking shields etc. theyre lance breaks.

[kinngrimm]

The idear about letting ranged start 5 secs later then melee is that they wont go around a corner meeting their doom, that they can take already fortified positions and that ranged maybe able to better anticipate where battles are happening or are already seeing where they are taking place and therefor from afar can choose a better position to shoot at stuff. Also ranged needs often to train more to keep up with their folks is my believe still too often i am able to surprise them because they forgot to move on and feel safe at their position without looking behind them.

[Son Of Odin]

Kinngrim you have a good point but for what I have observed, the late spawners are always more likely to go alone somewhere (and thus be killed by me because I don't spare the weaklings wandering around alone )

Rhygar has a suggestion which sounds cool, is realistic but I'm not happy with the numbers it has (sorry ).  50% is just waaay too much for weapon breakage chance. I think the lance health bar idea has more potential to be implemented somehow. Lance would have more hp each heirloom and it takes less damage when you have more wpf (this would prevent low/0wpf sunday lancers from being too effective with couching). It would break after few couches if you don't have polearm wpf, and if the lance is not loomed. With loomed lance and high wpf I'd say it is fair to give atleast 10 succesful couches before it breaks also depending on what you hit. If you hit a shield it takes more damage than hitting shirt wearing peasant. If you hit low resistance shield it takes less damage than hitting a huscarl's shield.

+1 I totally support Torben's suggestion

[kinngrimm]

Kinngrim you have a good point but for what I have observed, the late spawners are always more likely to go alone somewhere (and thus be killed by me because I don't spare the weaklings wandering around alone )
...

Imagine

Melee Inf starts spawning - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - ranged starts spawning, a little late inf melee still spawning
- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 -9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - cav starts spawning, late inf still spawning

After 20 seconds you have up front pure inf melee looking for either good defendable positions or where the enemy is and where to hit him. In the middle you got ranged orientating themselves in comparison to the own dudes who already took positions or to the ennemies positions. At the end of the battle group you got cavs coming in orientating themselves like ... wtf are my guys now lets have a look arround and btw where is teh enemy as most of them are either already somewhere positioned or come in on spawn like themselves with other latecommers so cav can basicly perfectly protect all at spawn to the way upfront.

[Son Of Odin]

Imagine

Melee Inf starts spawning - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - ranged starts spawning, a little late inf melee still spawning
- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 -9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - cav starts spawning, late inf still spawning

After 20 seconds you have up front pure inf melee looking for either good defendable positions or where the enemy is and where to hit him. In the middle you got ranged orientating themselves in comparison to the own dudes who already took positions or to the ennemies positions. At the end of the battle group you got cavs coming in orientating themselves like ... wtf are my guys now lets have a look arround and btw where is teh enemy as most of them are either already somewhere positioned or come in on spawn like themselves with other latecommers so cav can basicly perfectly protect all at spawn to the way upfront.

Yes that sounds great in theory, but I'm still a bit skeptical about it in practise... I see what you mean and understand it would be awesome if it worked that way.