Crossbow or Bow for a ranged character?

[callahan9119]

Which is generally superior? I STF a guy to try out a ranged build but am having trouble deciding.

[rant]The annoying thing about this mod is how you get locked into something...I spent hours yesterday doing nothing but dying in shitty clothes and a wooden pole trying to save money and putting points into a build I don't even know if I'll like. There is nothing I can do to a guy with armor and a shit ton of iron flesh and power strike. I can hit him 4 times, but if I catch a glancing blow on the knuckles I crumple in a heap and have to wait 5 minutes for the round to end.[/rant]

[Zandieer]

First of all, the question I present you is: do you like crossbows or archery in Native more? Have you played native multiplayer?

Both of those weapons are viable, and fun to use in cRPG. But they're a lot different. Both are slowed down A LOT, because the native speed is just silly. Bows deal less damage, but are faster but generally need more skill to be good. Crossbows still need good aim, and battle awareness isn't going to hurt, either. Personally I like crossbows more. It's relaxing to aim, shoot, and hit (or kill!) someone, and then just go chill out while reloading your slooooow crossbow. Bows are more hectic. I'll leave that stuff for the pros.

For crossbows, all you need is the str requirement the xbow has, and WPF. Generally 110-160 would be good. 120-160 would make your life a lot easier. Crossbows cost more, btw, so be aware. No skill increases your dmg with xbows.

For bows, you need the str AND the PD (it's the bows requirement) and the more PD you have, the better. And for bow users, wpf is crucial. So get it to max. 160-ish. PD increases your dmg with bows, but only up to 4 more PD than the requirement the bow has.

WPF makes your shot more accurate, and faster to reload.

And I'd say if you go archer, don't take melee Even if people complain, your main tactic is to be in the move, shoot baddies, retreat when enemies get near, and stay behind heavy infantry. You're not supposed to go and fight with a sword, only when you absolutely need to.

Crossbows:
+Nice dmg
+Easy
-Cost a lot
-Slow
-Everyone hates them lol

Bows:
+Cheap
+Fast
-Low dmg for unloomed stuff
-Everyone hates them, too lol

When you decide what class you'll go for, let me give you some builds for your character:

Crossbow

(click to show/hide)

Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 54

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 2
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 8
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 50
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 169
    Throwing: 1
Most popular Xbow build, atleast on NA. Specifically made for arbalest. Xbow + melee Hybrid. Can go more or less 1h WPF as desired, some prefer 100 1h WPF at the cost of Xbow accuracy and reload rate -- While others prefer all their wpf in xbows. Some players put melee wpf in 2h or pole arm, and carry a staff or a Langes messer.

Archer:

(click to show/hide)

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 59

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 3
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 6
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 164
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1
Note: Light of foot, no melee. The best build for an archer who shoots and moves. Designed to sport the Rus bow or Longbow.

[callahan9119]

Thanks, I generally played horse archers in native single player. I've never played multiplayer, two days ago was my first time since I've bought Warband like 2 years ago. I'm leaning towards Archer, but I saw a lot of guys on horses using crossbows...so that made me wonder. I wanted to go horse archer, but people here told me not to, because I'm new and something about upkeep.

One thing I will say, there are waaaay too many guys running around with 2 handers. Generally in a multiplayer game when you see everybody doing the same thing, it's pretty indicative of balance issues.

[Grumbs]

One thing I will say, there are waaaay too many guys running around with 2 handers. Generally in a multiplayer game when you see everybody doing the same thing, it's pretty indicative of balance issues.

The melee combat system in this game is what attracts most to it, so you will find people doing melee regardless of balance. Without manual blocking and overall depth of melee I wouldn't even play the game, I feel like its a waste to play a game like this with a ranged character.

Ranged adds some kind of variety to it all, makes you consider your position a bit, but it should only ever be support damage when its not even real PVP style combat most of the time. You don't have to get the last hit to be useful for the team, any damage you do from range helps the team overall

[callahan9119]

Ranged vs melee argument aside, because that's not what I'm talking about....there are way too many two handed users. And the combat system is garbage, it always has been. The game is still fun based on its setting and allowing people to run around and kill each other in armor and shit, but the actual mechanics are a joke. The reason everyone uses two handers is because it's easier to just goon people with power strikes. I did spectator a lot yesterday, there were really no battles where skill was going on, it was a cluster**** mass of dudes just spamming attack for the most part. I did see some good fights, but that's rare, it's mostly just guys wildly swinging two handers because that's easiest.

Actually getting really good with a bow seems challenging and to me more interesting than being a soup can with a two hander...just my opinion. I understand why people like it.

With power draw and weapon proficiency, does the bows damage become anything comparable to the xbow?

[Vexus]

It's a medieval game if you want ranged only go play CoD or Battlefield.

This is the only multiplayer game which has some focus on melee players plus having to manual block you NEED some skill. Sure spamming is frequent and in big fights it can net you some kills but overall if you manage to be in a team that works together spammers die first.

[callahan9119]

Where did I say anything about ranged only? I didn't. It's like the other guy misreading the comment about the preponderance of two handers.

Working together has nothing to do with combat weapons skill, that's called teamwork. The combat system is absolutely rudimentary. It's hilarious when people consider blocking so skillful. It's a button to swing and a button to block, then you can direct the block. There is a very low ceiling for skill. And that's not what I'm talking about anyways...people keep replying with comments based on poor reading comprehension...

[Grumbs]

Thanks, I generally played horse archers in native single player. I've never played multiplayer, two days ago was my first time since I've bought Warband like 2 years ago.

You're entitled to an opinion, but to me the skill ceiling is insanely high. You should see some of the better players. The skill curve is also pretty steep until you get the basic hang of it and the skill floor is 10x higher than most multi player games

You can't compare it to pointing and clicking with fast projectiles though, that is nowhere near the skill floor/ceiling of melee. Its so one sided, not really player vs player

[callahan9119]

I'm not trying to get into a fucking argument about this...it all started from you misreading a comment and turning this shit into an inane melee vs archery argument that i'm not interested in. It was a comment on how there are too many two-handerscompared to other melee types, such as shield and sword or even polearms to a degree. Quit it, i don't give a shit. If you hilariously think mount and blade requires more skill than battlefield 3, then go on thinking it, because I don't give a shit and I don't feel like arguing about it.

I wish a mod would remove any post that wasn't pertaining to my main question about crossbows and and bows.

[Digglez]

you can contribute ALOT more with unloomed xbows than you can unloomed bows.  Unloomed bows are just an exercise in frustration.

Hit someone with bow and they shrug it off and keep steaming for you.  Hit'em with an xbow and they start looking for cover...if they can still manage to walk

[callahan9119]

you can contribute ALOT more with unloomed xbows than you can unloomed bows.  Unloomed bows are just an exercise in frustration

Why? I still don't understand this loom business. I saw a lot of mounted crossbowmen, is that pretty viable?

[Cup1d]

You'll be very disapointed with cRPG archery in comparison with Native archery. Especially with cRPG Horse Archery.

[Grumbs]

Actually you declared there was a balance issue after 2 days of experience in multiplayer m&b and I commented on it.

Thanks, I generally played horse archers in native single player. I've never played multiplayer, two days ago was my first time since I've bought Warband like 2 years ago. I'm leaning towards Archer, but I saw a lot of guys on horses using crossbows...so that made me wonder. I wanted to go horse archer, but people here told me not to, because I'm new and something about upkeep.

One thing I will say, there are waaaay too many guys running around with 2 handers. Generally in a multiplayer game when you see everybody doing the same thing, it's pretty indicative of balance issues.

Lol @ BF3 btw, totally different type of game

[Vexus]

You said the combat is a joke (Clearly referring to melee) and that playing without a shield which only needs to right click to block every direction is easier. (Yes it's easier to having no protection from ranged, having 4 blocking directions and fighting vs people that can feint and chamber instead of bots.)

Clearly I didn't misread anything.

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But anyway the difference between a crossbow and a bow is:

Crossbow-

Good:
- A crossbow is very damaging.
- Doesn't need stats spent on it apart of WM for faster reloading and better accuracy as nothing from the skills affects it's damage.
- And unlike bows you could remain still aiming the whole round and your aim will remain the same.

Bad:
- The reloading is very slow.
- You can't walk while reloading unlike bows (Apart of the last part of the animation if you time it correctly. This is when your on the ground it doesn't affect you when your on a horse.) making you an easy target for other rangers/cav/melee.
- Crossbow is the only ranged weapon that can break. (If someone hits you or bumps you while your shooting there's a chance the crossbow will break for the whole round.)
- And during rainy days your damage will be severely lowered.

Bows-

Good:
- You can be fast, powerful or something in the middle depending on your build.
- You can reload while walking.
- Holding your shot will deal more damage.
- Bows can't break.
- If your good at aiming you can destroy a team with headshots as currently ranged weapons deals a shit ton of damage into the face.
- And you have 2 choices on arrows (Cut or pierce) for armour variants.

Bad:
- Unless you get high PD your damage on body/legs will be weaker than a crossbow. (Thank god)
- Unlike crossbows, bows need a balance of PD and WM if they want accuracy.
- Rain affects bows damage too so if your damage is already low expect to deal 0 during rainy days which is 50% of the times.
- Since bows are faster, arrows run dry fast so you'll need more arrows equipped.
- Most archers either use 1 slot weapon or they run like a my old friend kiting you. (Not calling you my old friend, just the running all the time archers.)
- Since you use more slots for arrows a bigger chance on a heftier repair on arrows since each one has a chance to break with bodkin not being exactly cheap.

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What all this has to do with horse archer/crossbow? Pretty much everything.

Horse crossbow is more used because like I said, crossbows doesn't require any stats for their damage, you only need enough strength to use them. People can make 12/30 characters and ride fast horses with no melee weapons but if your good as horse archer you can be VERY annoying in downing enemy cav and shooting in groups of enemies.

Well that's pretty much it.

Cheers.

[callahan9119]

There we go, that's the stuff. Thanks.

Does the powerdraw component make the bows deal damage anywhere in the range of a crossbow?