The Leeching Rule on the NA servers

[Nindur]

I take alot of grief for enforcing the Leeching rule, several players have vividly expressed their displeasure with the rule but they think it would be a waste of time to discuss on the forums. From what I understand they take issue with the fact that sometimes a player will be kicked for 'leeching' when they may be using the bathroom or using the phone or answering the door, etc, etc. I have expressed that admins are unable to differentiate someone who sits in a corner and starts to read a book, and someone who is stabbed in the back and has to leave the computer to call an ambulance. Players also take issue with the fact that they will sometimes be kicked when they are browsing the equipment and stat pages, again, admins are unable to differntiate the difference between a true 'leecher' and the other scenarios.

Personally I think the leeching rule is fine and I enforce it in a consistent and fair manner. I scan through the player base, taking note or players I think may be leeching, then I scan through a minute or so later, if I feel that player is still 'leeching' I ask them to join the battle, I then scan the player base again, when I return a minute or so later, if that player has not responded or moved, I kick them. Sometimes if a friend responds for them I will have a little more lieniency and grant a few extra moments before they are kicked. The easiest way to avoid all of this is to simply join the spectator team if you have to leave your computer, but alot of people think that is unacceptable for their own personal reasons.

Everything I have said above applies only to myself and the NA servers, I cannot speak for the other admins or servers that I have no control over. I started this thread so that you may discuss your feelings about the rule here. I would prefer to only have commentary from players who play on the NA server, but it's a free world and anyone can post. If enough of you express your displeasure with the rule, backed up by valid reasoning who is to say that it will not be removed? Final judgement always rests with the adminship, but in case you don't realize, I take what you all say into consideration before I do anything. Shocking, lies, bullshit, some trolls will say, but I'm a new admin, and I'm brining fresh ideas to the table. I hope that you will do the same so that the player/admin relationship does not have to be as hostile as it was.

[arowaine]

i agree with all you say but the fact is on siege server you cant never take a pause and if you really need to went to the bathroom/ anwser to the door or bring the phone really quick on the siege server you cant do it cause the respawn time is really shot compare to the battle cause on battle you can just die instantly and you have time till the battle end so what im saying if people would just like warn people as they do normaly if they remain without weapon or still afk for longer than maybe 1 mins i would say kick them......But remenber if you go spectator you are losing your time x3 or x5 so something its anoying even more if you just went to pee or bring your coffee at the computer so admin would need to talk about it and take a decision.....thank for understandind im not here to figth against anyone im just saying what im thinking about.

[Boss_Awesome]

I wasn't impressed when you yelled at the one guy on our siege attacker team who had ladders for not having a weapon but of course wouldn't do a map change.  The siege tower was all screwed up so bad i couldn't get up it even with a running start.  You don't necessarily need to have a weapon to be useful, especially in siege.   In strategus we use dedicated ladder throwers, why should it be different here? 

[Zanthos]

Some admins take a harder stance/approach to leeching. On Siege it's really hard to just assume someone is leeching without keeping an eye on them and seeing if it was a quick AFK.

There are also similar instances on Battle where I may see someone who is no longer moving, but they are not naked and are somewhere in the middle of the battlefield with an active K:D ratio. In those cases, I try to let it slide in assumption that they went AFK mid-fight for something and I simply let them know to try not to do that. That doesn't mean if they are not the last one alive I won't kick them if they are hiding in a bush and the timer is running down... but  if they are truly AFK they will not be clicking OK to start the next round anyway so the problem resolves itself.

I'll always prefer to warn/ask them to not do it before kicking. Some people just don't understand/know... others are pure trolls and should just be removed.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

I have no problem with enforcement of the leeching rule, when its enforced.

What is the opinion of dying right away every round? There is a known player from a known guild who likes to ride their horse straight into the mass of enemies at the start of every single round. 99% of the time, they die and die first. I actually can't remember this person's name but I am sure most regulars on the NA servers know who I am talking about. I have no idea if this person is leeching or not but their actions lead me to question their methods.

[John]

Well, I'll kick someone if they're obviously leeching, but tend to cut people some slack for sandwich-making and the like.  If someone's leeching for multiple consecutive rounds, it's obviously going to warrant a kick, given that they're intentionally coming back and entering the game only to leave immediately afterward.

[Gash]

Nindur, good thread - in order to avoid ambiguous situations the rules are kept simple and straight-forward.

Spawn with a weapon. Be active and help your team.

The rest is up to admin discretion and interpretation.

Spawning with 4 ladders in strategus is your call - but for the siege server, if you plan on spawning with 4 ladders, make sure you find a weapon on the ground quickly - once again, the admin who cycles through the players might not see the player put down 4 ladders, but rather just running around with no weapon.

Don't create a doubt for the admins, and you'll be fine.

As for dying intentionally every round; I kicked out a player who just ran in a straight line every round and didn't even attempt to fight back. It was an obvious case of leeching and other such cases can be taken care of as well.

[Havoco]

Sitting in spawn?-kick if they are last person.

Suicide charging?- they are(no matter how little) helping their team, Although People count that as leeching. Think the big difference though is if they attack or not.

That's just my method.

[Nindur]

I'm seeing lots of views but few replies. Put your opinions out there people, I'm not here to judge. Day in and day out I hear people moan about leeching, so lets get it out in the open, express yourself!

[Tears of Destiny]

Here is my opinion:

If a guy is hiding, leave him be, unless it is for minutes on end. A 50 second pause at the start of the game is likely him multitasking (and failing) with steam or chat etc. Be more tolerant of people AFK in things that are obviously costing them money (like wearing full plate, leaching is pointless in such a getgo), and more suspicious of lightly geared people.

If someone is naked and weaponless, warn them right away that they must spawn next round with something, or be kicked. There is no excuse for spawning naked and with fists, at least bring a spear or a bow or SOMETHING, otherwise you are useless (not even a good arrow shield as that requires a.. well... shield, and no being OS and self sacrificing is not you being an arrow shield, that is you being a jerk and screwing up team balance).

Do not kick people for leeching/delaying if they are on a cav and hit and running. They are paying out the nose for that horse, and they are playing the build properly if he/she is still alive, so just leave it at that.

Kick people for leeching if said people are just running away not towards cover (avoiding cav, getting a bottleneck etc) or with a range weapon, but just, well, away.

Ban people for leeching if they are hiding in a glitch spot, this deserves no warnings. None. 24 hour ban or 3 days is what I suggest. Glitching is a jerk move, leeching is a jerk move, but together you are just a total jerk. If you accidently glitch into it, then have the good grace to suicide and save everyone the trouble.

_______________________________
As a side note, if I am reloading my bow/xbow and I am getting repeatedly interrupted by a naked teamate who is kicking me deliberately, is it self defense to just swing back once? Technically he is doing damage and I am lightly armored. This assumes that no Admin are present to kick him.

[Mech]

+1 to what Tears of Destiny said. Seems like common sense.

I've seen several peasants and or weaponless naked's run right through our formations during prime time. It was funny because he was able to draw away at least 15 guys every time to chase him down. The other half of the time they just suicide and go down swinging.

[Sphinxer]

I don't understand why you should warn a leecher to stop leeching .. He can't he didn't know it wasn't allowed ... or that he didn't do it on purpose .. c'mon guys let's not play that stupid innocence card here.

The guy is hiding in his spawn with a sickle ... fine for now, if he stays the whole round there and at the end wait to be discovered , kick that annoying guy.

The guy is heading toward the end of the map on a siege map .. are you really gonna warn him ? you know he's going to leech / multibox.

The guy as his shield up using the "t" key in the water or in a corner and he's not moving , warn him to give sign of life, he doesn't do anything , kick

That might sound harsh but I don't understand why others' fun should be ruined cause of some idiots who wants to have it easier than anybody else. Since leeching is allowed by just staying at spawn , it sucks sometimes and rounds get endless at some point. If only you weren't allowed to get XP / Gold if you haven't moved for 30 seconds that'd be great and fix a lot of problem, except for those annoying suicidal rushers / I jump off a roof until I die "by accident" ..

I have to totally agree with Gash

[Zekerage]

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated, Nindur. It's really annoying seeing people not contributing, especially when I know for a fact kills can be had at lvl's 1-10. Yeah, you may not hit fast, or hard, but you can still hit, damnit!

As for the person who suicide charged on a horse or just sat there on it, I'm pretty sure it was Kimichi

[panderson]

I think more admins posted on here than anyone else....

But yea, I have had the same problem Nindur.  I have received quite a bit of flak for kicking people for leeching.  Their clanmates typically take it personally. 

[Goretooth]

I think more admins posted on here than anyone else....

But yea, I have had the same problem Nindur.  I have received quite a bit of flak for kicking people for leeching.  Their clanmates typically take it personally.

Kick till they get it