Possible root cause(s) of rage in cRPG and Warband. (long)

[Count_Adhamar]

Make cRPG being more of a strategy game, than of a skill based "who's got the better reflexes and muscle memory?"-game, and the nerf cries will become fewer.

-1

Unrealistic and that's unrewarding to people who actually have skill in the game. Rage cries on realism would increase if this was implemented. Strategy is already present in this game, but best not to go to the extreme of what you're asking.

Changing the default game mode from battle, which is basing on killing the enemy to something different, which bases on holding several points on the map would shift the focus from killing enemies to winning rounds.

-1

Less combat focused and therefore more boring.

[Malaclypse]

Agi builds are very competitive, mostly because today bounces never happen due to the attack being too weak.

My 2 and 3 Powerstrike characters beg to differ. Even 5 and 6 sometimes bounces off of Plate when it would have connected on lower armor.

I had no problem in the long ago past of dying to str monsters such as Wallace, and feel agility (athletics and weapon master) have suffered to the point of being more of a choice for those determined to use that playstyle rather then it being as competitive as a strength build.

Totally agree. I love playing agi builds, mostly on alts without the benefit of Reinforced Ragged Outfits and MW Italian Swords and what have you.  I have a 6/30 Archer/1hand/shield that is hilariously ineffective on anything other than clothies and last hits.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

-1

Unrealistic and that's unrewarding to people who actually have skill in the game. Rage cries on realism would increase if this was implemented. Strategy is already present in this game, but best not to go to the extreme of what you're asking.

Typical comment....."uuhhh I want to show how good I am" *looking at my e-pen*

[Joker86]

Unrealistic and that's unrewarding to people who actually have skill in the game.

I think the definition of skill in a game with several very different classes fighting each other in two teams goes far beyond just knowing how to block manually. In fact, it's only unrewarding for those who are good dueller, but bad teamplayers. Which would be completely justified in my eyes. You can NEVER win a map on your own, you rely on your teammates, if you want it or not. Completely ignoring them and playing like an autist should be punished.

Rage cries on realism would increase if this was implemented. Strategy is already present in this game, but best not to go to the extreme of what you're asking.

I don't see where this is unrealistic. If anything, it improves realism, because most people tend to try to survive a battle, instead of launching suicide charges and going rambo mode.

Less combat focused and therefore more boring.

I think the complete opposite of "less combat focused". It would be a shitload of fun to watch both teams trying to get an advantage over each other. And mind you, it's LESS combat focused, not "not combat focused at all".

[POOPHAMMER]

Well I guess it is my turn to write a really long post about something

I am going to sit here and type a whole bunch of shit, I do not care if you read it or not. I am letting you know now that this post does not contain anything that will contribute to this conversation whatsoever. I have just really felt left out to be honest, I always see these long ass posts I am never going to read about crap in cRPG, and I wanted a post that somewhat resembles one of the posts I fly over.

I really do not know why I am typing all of this, I am actually pretty bored on a Thursday night, got done catching up on all of my television and what not, finished dinner, even went out for a nice stroll in the night time seeing as how the weather has been warming up in these parts, which is cool I suppose, but I am more of a fan of the cold than warm, I get the feeling summer is going to really suck ass.

I might work on vacuuming out my fish tank later, it has been looking pretty gross this week. I think the reason we have lost 2 fish in the last few weeks was due to a bacterial infection from lack of care, but oh well I guess thats how you learn. We still have a pretty good assortment of fish, might even go out to pick up some more this weekend. If anyone has any idea what we should get let me know, we own a 55 gallon freshwater tank.

In closing, I guess I might play some cRPG in a little bit, or may even find another game to play. I have been playing a lot of Blacklight: Retribution, a free to play first person shooter with pretty nice graphics and decent gameplay, I guess people who like COD styled games will like it. I bet you guys stopped reading this post a few sentences in.

[Zisa]

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I think the main reason for rage in cRPG (that's what the title says this thread is about) are not so much the points you listed up.

I think it's the missing will of the players to leave their subjective point of view. All that counts for them is their "micro-game", in other words the player fighting another player. They don't care a single bit about the "macro-game", which is more about teamplay and tactics. Even if you manage to make a team follow a plan, their motivation will be more to be able to kill enemy players again (after having been raped several times and being prowd owner of a 0:3 k/d), instead of winning the round, which is what the game is about. (It is about winning rounds, because your k/d has no impact on the game, but your w/l determines the XP and the money you get! And the standard mode is TEAM deathmatch, not deathmach free for all!)

The best example is cav. I think the class is heavily underpowered, stat wise, especially heavy cav. But in reality, on the servers, cav can easily be the dominating class, and the team which got more cav usually wins the map. At least light and medium cav does. They do it even with their awful stats, because the rest of the players on the servers sucks incredibly in dealing with cav. I bet even with 0 bump damage, 0 horse armour and 1 horse hitpoint you would still have several decent players on the server having 3:1 k/d or even better.

My point is: cav is not dealt with by skill, it's dealt with by the right behaviour, which is called teamplay. (And a few other things like not listening to music while playing or constantly looking around while walking).

And this observation applies to a lot of other classes... shieldmen, two handers, maulers and so on... even HA's can be countered on equal chances (well, better than nothing, huh?)

But as long as players refuse to change their mind, and leave certain enemies to other teammates, while trying to concentrate on their own specialization and helping out other teammates (instead of just "hunting your target class"), they will always suffer from the impression of having been killed too easily. Which will always lead to flaming and "nerf this and that"-whine-threads.

Make cRPG being more of a strategy game, than of a skill based "who's got the better reflexes and muscle memory?"-game, and the nerf cries will become fewer. Change the mod description and the information on the way to the download, you can change more at this point than at any other moment in the carreer of a cRPG player. It's the same rules like educating children. What you teach them first is remembered and followed the best. Then add ingame features that support teamplay and make coordinations within the team better, a command system would be the most important of those features. Changing the default game mode from battle, which is basing on killing the enemy to something different, which bases on holding several points on the map would shift the focus from killing enemies to winning rounds.

Change that stuff, and you will see which classes are really OP. It won't be the that many as you would think.

You are firmly in the RTS camp then.

I said my favourite food was cav, but I know I am not alone in constantly looking for opportunities to help a team mate. I am also pretty sure the team hits I receive and give are really failed attempts to help for the most part. It is not like educating children (you deserve to be called a pompous windbag for that, though the label kindergarten mode is often justified) - people either play with their heads up their ass or start to pay attention. Or they are drunk. Trying to add artifical methods of promoting team play is akin to pandering to the stupidest players ever, and not required, as I see plenty of good team play as it is. You don't really want multiplayer, you want bots to follow your commands.

(By the way, one of the funnier but constant irritants is rushing to an outnumbered team mate - and they die just before you get there.)

You are indeed part of the problem, worse thing is, you do not see it. 'More of a strategy game' is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole - it's the wrong tool for the job and the materials at hand. So maybe you'd fit right in with people determined to make the game shittier from an action viewpoint (even as merely an unfortunate biproduct of some mad quest to make things more strategic - but who cares right), which is what warband is - an action game.

The big phallacy some are under the influence of, is 'twitch is inferior' and a desire to equate slow play with cerebral play, possibly stemming from a defeat. Can't beat it first try? Heck nerf it!

EDIT: +1 to POOPHAMMER. Try a plecostamus (spelling?) they look like small brown long stingrays and eat a lot of the shit in the tank - I still recommend frequent cleaning. Also wave your fingers at them once in a while - they like that.

EDIT 2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plecostomus

[Adamar]

Remove mauls, at least poophammer will have some time to clean his fishboul.

I also agree with the idea to force 10 units of unstacking weight on everyone. Put an end to naked perverts and fake peasants.

[POOPHAMMER]

EDIT: +1 to POOPHAMMER. Try a plecostamus (spelling?) they look like small brown long stingrays and eat a lot of the shit in the tank - I still recommend frequent cleaning. Also wave your fingers at them once in a while - they like that.

EDIT 2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plecostomus

I have two plecos, male and female, both fully grown!

BONUS: Pic of the plecos

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visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Oberyn]

The big phallacy

lolol

[Grumbs]

Main source of rage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

People try to blame stuff for dying; OP weapon, OP class, dumbass team, underlevelled, whatever. Anything to deflect blame from yourself and save the ego

That doesn't mean there isn't some OP stuff, imbalances or whatever, but 9/10 people who rage regularly will always look for an excuse rather than look at their own game for ways to improve

[Count_Adhamar]

Typical comment....."uuhhh I want to show how good I am" *looking at my e-pen*

I take it you're someone with no skill. Also you're going off the point, I like realism in a game, whereas it seems you don't.

I think the definition of skill in a game with several very different classes fighting each other in two teams goes far beyond just knowing how to block manually.

Yeah, obviously. I never said skill is solely defined on a persons ability to manual block.

You can NEVER win a map on your own

I beg to differ. But yes I support teamwork.

I don't see where this is unrealistic. If anything, it improves realism, because most people tend to try to survive a battle, instead of launching suicide charges and going rambo mode.

It's unrealistic as in real life it would be "who's got the better reflexes" that would win the 1v1 majority of the time, if you disagree then clearly detail to me the characteristic that would bring victory in a 1v1 if it is not the reflexes of a player. There is more then just having fast reflexes (like tactics) but you mentioning that this should not be a factor to obtaining victory is stupid.

I think the complete opposite of "less combat focused". It would be a shitload of fun to watch both teams trying to get an advantage over each other. And mind you, it's LESS combat focused, not "not combat focused at all".

Holding certain points of the map for a set amount of time to win instead of killing the enemy as you would do in real life, does not make it more "fun to watch" as you'll just be watching each team camp the points on the map to claim victory rather than engaging the enemy for victory, how's that an improvement in realism? After all this game is based on medieval combat, what you're suggesting would minimize the direct combat in the game. Yes you need strategy to win a battle but introducing a new game type to hold and capture points for a certain amount of time and replace the battle game type as the default is not needed.

[Count_Adhamar]

which is what warband is - an action game.

Action, RPG ftw!

[isatis]

From a multiplayer 'action' viewpoint, it's one of the stupidest things ever. Seriously, most of the time I feel we may as well have that guy on the flying carpet shooting fireballs from the sky.

read all like a boss

and that make me lol

Al_Adin is gameplay element, like god, wind, or firerain.
Don't involve this guy if you want to be taken serisously!

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good point of what is wrong, now bring the solution!

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I've got more poop to say but I'm going to limit it to the following comment for now (I agree with most of it Zisa 100% on the agi whoredom, its really gone to the shit house).

Did some practice against the Great Maul and was able to chamber it somewhere around 90% of the time. Holding a block up was about 50/50.

[Zisa]

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good point of what is wrong, now bring the solution!

I am fully aware some wont like 'my' solution.
Speed up melee.
Get rid of these added delays to swings as this gives cav too much of an advantage, never mind slowing combat to the pace of a slow square dance.
Run speed. The advantage of athletics is far too slight and all too often nullified by terrain.
I'm not sure there is enough of a penalty for armor and run speeds - something to consider but notimplement just yet.
Weapon speed - make WM mean something other then a cosmetic addition to the character sheet.
De nerf lance radius - I might want to break out the cav alt and have split second tilts with other cav - not split minute. This will likely increase the number of cav that will charge at you instead of your rear.