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New upkeep system?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Upkeep Overhaul  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline Xol!

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Upkeep Overhaul
« on: March 21, 2012, 04:18:54 pm »
+27
Why have it rely on some random chance?  Instead, make everyone pay a flat percentage of what their gear costs.  Right now, there's a 4% chance of an item to break per tick for 7% of the item's cost.  Why not just make us pay .0028 (.04*.07) of the item's cost (rounded UP, so no one can take advantage of 0 cost items) every tick?  Add it up during the round, then spit out one number at the end:  "Your gear repairs for this round cost xxx gold."

This makes it easier to plan what gear you're going to use, and it makes higher cost gear more viable.  Instead of throwing on your best weapon/horse/armor/whatever for a single round and praying to the random gods that it doesn't break, you'd be able to say, "Oh, I'm on a x3 multi, I can afford to use this gear, so I'll put it on."  This applies especially to heavy cavalry, who I feel are affected the most by this randomness.  A mamluk would cost 168 gold per tick, which is 'viable' money-wise at a x4.  A single break now costs 4203 gold, which would wipe out 16 ticks at a x5.  In theory you have a 52% chance of the horse not breaking for 16 rounds in a row.  Obviously, everyone wants to see more variety on the battlefield.  This is actually no different from the current system in the long run, it simply removes the random element and makes higher end gear make sense instead of making players worry about breaks.

"What about when someone can't afford upkeep?" you say.  Well, instead of the current system, where the item drops an heirloom level (temporarily) until repaired, I suggest that the item simply isn't useable until the repair balance on the item is paid.  Perhaps a flat 28% (10 ticks-worth of repairs) of the purchase cost to discourage any kind of potential abuse.  Right now, the current system disenfranchises new players, alts, and STFs that don't have a huge sack of gold yet.  They want to use decent gear, which in theory might fall under the "sustainable" gear amount, but one bad round and all of a sudden they're in the hole and can't repair their stuff.  With this system, if they are under the sustainable amount, they are guaranteed to be able to use their gear, as they will never have repair bills they can't pay.

I'm sure there are a some flaws I've overlooked, feel free to comment, or come up with ideas that might make the system (this one or the current one) better.

tl;dr: Get rid of random chance in upkeep (4% chance to break & 7% repair cost), make people pay a flat upkeep percentage (4%*7% = 0.28%) every tick.


edit: Regarding multiple breaks(thanks RibaldRon):
Quote
You are correct about the multiple breaks, I had overlooked that facet of the current system.  It could, however, be pretty easily be tweaked by adjusting the repair cost.  Say your a round nets you 6 ticks (6:30, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2).  The probability of getting more than one break, right now, is about 0.0216 (1 - (.96^6 + 6*.04*.96^5)).  In a 4 tick round, it's a 0.0091.  For example, using a 30,000 gold build in this hypothetical 6 minute round, you've got an expected value of 410 gold for one break only (the current system), and you're 'saving'  45 gold per round for the value of any extra breaks (11%).  For the four tick round, it's 297 &  19 (6.4%). The devs would be able to adjust the repair cost slightly (ie, .0028 to .0025) per tick to compensate.  Or, they could give away the first tick free of repair costs, since very little combat happens during the thirty seconds anyway.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 12:59:50 pm by Xolvern »
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 04:36:31 pm »
+2
I don't see any reason to not have this. It's incredibly convenient for players is what it is.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 04:39:05 pm »
0
Sounds pretty good i guess..
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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 04:57:12 pm »
+2
There is no downside to this proposal. The random % chance thing just frustrates new/broke players.

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 09:14:05 pm »
-1
i'd rather have it based on your actual game performance

weapon repair chance % based on the amount of damage you do
armor repair chance % based on the amount of damage you take

Offline HELM

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 09:28:57 pm »
0
The one issue I see with this is possibly in imbalance of the team strengths. If people know what they can afford, the winning team is going to get heavier and heavier each multiplier while the losing team is just gonna keep losing harder and harder every round.

or I could be wrong.

This idea or old system - are both fine by me.

Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 09:29:44 pm »
+1
Just don`t touch the repair system ever again.
Its good like it is.
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Offline Xol!

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 09:32:21 pm »
0
The one issue I see with this is possibly in imbalance of the team strengths. If people know what they can afford, the winning team is going to get heavier and heavier each multiplier while the losing team is just gonna keep losing harder and harder every round.

or I could be wrong.

This idea or old system - are both fine by me.

People can and do equip gear based on their multiplier now, and in the long run it comes out the same.  This system simply demystifies what's actually going on when you pay upkeep and removes the chance of having 'unlucky' (or lucky) streaks of breaks.
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Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 09:38:46 pm »
0
People can and do equip gear based on their multiplier now, and in the long run it comes out the same.  This system simply demystifies what's actually going on when you pay upkeep and removes the chance of having 'unlucky' (or lucky) streaks of breaks.

Exactly this ruins all the fun, because a team gets huge winstreaks if they win once, because they can eqip better and better, while loosing team cant.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 09:48:48 pm »
0
Exactly this ruins all the fun, because a team gets huge winstreaks if they win once, because they can eqip better and better, while loosing team cant.

Primarily a Battle issue. I've noticed on Siege that it can be very hard to get an x3 or x4 rolling, much less an x5. Probably more to do with maps than balance, but then again, with people being switched every round it could be that the balance on battle is what needs tweaking.

But I agree with the OP's suggestion on upkeep.
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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 10:01:21 pm »
0
i'd rather have it based on your actual game performance

weapon repair chance % based on the amount of damage you do
armor repair chance % based on the amount of damage you take

Hell yeah full plate leechers hiding and not taking damage

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Offline Xol!

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 10:05:11 pm »
0
Exactly this ruins all the fun, because a team gets huge winstreaks if they win once, because they can eqip better and better, while loosing team cant.

... I think you misunderstand how this works. 

There's nothing stopping anyone from equipping whatever they want, whenever they want, in either system.  Over 100 hours, if two people used the same sets of gear on the same multipliers in the two different systems for upkeep, they would ultimately (in an ideal world) pay the same amount of gold. 

People can and do equip gear based on what multiplier they have.  Nothing in this new system would change that, except that people would be more aware of how much gear they could support.  Right now a player can make builds for  17857, 35714, 53571, 71428, and 89285 gold [multi * 50/(.07*.04)] if they so choose.
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Offline Tore

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 10:23:26 pm »
-1
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 11:09:02 pm »
0
Like this idea, I usually gain gold on an armoured horse but sometimes I get really unlucky and have to repair a Cataphract multiple rounds in a row and I can be down anywhere from 10-50k gold in a few hours playing even at constant x5. Would be nicer to remove the randomness.

Offline RibaldRon

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Re: Upkeep Overhaul
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 07:34:24 am »
0
Here are some things to consider:

Make this be based on gold ticks, and not "time spent alive" because currently, the break chance is run PER TICK, so the gold income balances out with the amount you pay in repairs.

I.E. if a round ends in 3:59 you get the 6:30 tick 6:00  tick, 5:00 tick, 4:00 tick.  Under your new system, you would pay repairs for nearly an entire minute, without the next tick in compensation.

And

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current system does not allow an item to break more than once*under normal circumstances, nor does it roll an "extra" attempt on other items if said item is broken.  This means that, in theory, your gold upkeep is less than 0.07*0.04


I really do like this idea, however, I think that the gold/tick and upkeep costs are fairly well balanced as of now and would hate to see that be thrown off.
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