Author Topic: March of the Druzhina Bears  (Read 8019 times)

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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 01:48:48 am »
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DRZ are very powerful. All the money they got from taking the cities and castles left them in a solid financial position. With out the trade route and all that, getting 1mill + for taking a castle and anywhere up to 5mill for a city is worth it. In NA for a multitude of reasons cities and castles have remained untouched. The result has been that the Europeans power has gone skyward while NAs plateaued.

I offered my services and my networks a long time ago. But no one wanted to hire the privateers. I would have taken the fight to any one with a writ of services but no one wanted to pay. I only did one job as the privateers. 1. And it was very successful, I ballsed the Bashis out of 2600 trade goods and made a section of there territory unsafe for about a week, they had to send 3 200 man armies to secure the area and stop me from knocking out more caravans which I still could have done had I not made a drunken mistake.
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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 01:51:04 am »
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I'm wondering what would happen if CHAOS basically said, "Everyone who feels confident soloing, go solo.  Run around the sides, whatever, cause trouble and ignore all orders from here on out.  Everyone else fight as a clump and listen to orders." 
I'm afraid in the case with DRZ, where they have so many archers supporting them, the front may more or less be equal on infantry, but the ranged  would  light them up, they'd get overrun, and they'll still have arrows leftover for the skirmishers.  Not to mention cav.  Plus, when the group gets split up, the chance they'll push straight through the middle of the (diminished) lines and capture the flags, instantly putting an end to the battle, grows.

The thing about the skirmishing that was going on was, I think it was largely unexpected as you said.  I could flank archers, personally, and score a kill and(or) chase them off a little ways.  It would usually attract the attention of some of their infantry and cav, too.  That's a bonus.  When you have a lot of people doing it, it just makes the whole thing chaotic, and I think with superior gear and ranged support, they would be able to take advantage of that situation, as opposed to us taking advantage of the former.


Honestly the vast majority of my deaths in these battles was to archers, typically headshots.  Pretty much, regardless of my position on the map.  :lol:

I think that's really where they had us.  Volleys of arrows blotting out the sun, falling down to headshot us all.  Ping no longer matters.  It's just dark and cold.
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Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 01:55:04 am »
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I think that's really where they had us.  Volleys of arrows blotting out the sun, falling down to headshot us all.  Ping no longer matters.  It's just dark and cold.

I prefer fighting in the shade.

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 01:56:16 am »
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Incidentally, Chaos vs Druzhina, I watched the battles and have a comment/suggestion for Chaos:

Split up more.


The usual thinking is "group up and fight together".  This is not the CHAOS way and you suffer for trying it.  Druzhina has more ranged and more polearms.  CHAOS has much better individual skirmishers (especially when playing on NA).  I watch a 10 vs 10 engagement end up with CHAOS being wiped but then I watch a solo CHAOS guy trying to sneak around the side kill 6 people before he finally gets shot to death with arrows.

Basically you guys aren't good at working together and Druzhina's strategy relies on them working together.  Therefore a possible solution is, well....chaos.  If you spread out, some of you will get massacred by Druzhina pikeman clumps but around the edges where other CHAOS members are able to fight people in 1's and 2's, you do well.  And while conventional wisdom is that "streaming into the fight is bad", it might be what CHAOS needs to do -- not stream straight back into the central grinder, but basically everyone run in different directions -- enemy archers have no crowd to fire into (where they miss their target but hit someone else anyway) and Druzhina pikemen aren't good if they get spread thin.  They want to fight clump to clump, not man to man.

Their best defense to this would be to stay in a clump, but then they can't protect their archers as well as if they ran out to meet you, and they can't protect their siege shields, weapon racks and weapon depot as well either.

In the battles I watched, CHOAS would group up and charge, then regroup and charge again and during the regroups, Druzhina was running out to grab weapons, drop them in a central location and someone's full time job was to stuff them back into the weapon rack.  This person was completely unmolested as the clump vs clump battle raged a safe distance away.  They kept that weapon rack running for 3/4ths of the fight, only losing it when CHAOS lost cohesion and started trying more flanking maneuvers by the 1's and 2's, which Druzhina had to counter by clumping up, forcing them to fight right on top of their archers and weapon rack.



In conclusion, CHAOS is using Druzhina tactics but they aren't as good at it because they lack polearms and ranged.

CHAOS should try fighting using "chaos" tactics.  Your strength is individual dueling.  Your weakness is group vs group.  If you can't figure out how to quickly improve your weaknesses, then maybe you can find a way to play more to your strengths.

(Also, if you would supply your armies with a small number of heavy throwing axes, I would totally have killed those spawn camping horses...)

one thing to note is that if you split up to much you will have to play tag with the flags as the large host unit wonders about capping flags at will and camping them.
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Offline Nebun

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 02:11:13 am »
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I think that's really where they had us.  Volleys of arrows blotting out the sun, falling down to headshot us all.  Ping no longer matters.  It's just dark and cold.

We had archers from different clans mercing for us, zeeee best. You should see what they can do in EU field battle one day.
But our inf on NA ping is suffering the most.
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Offline Slamz

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 02:57:05 am »
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I'm afraid in the case with DRZ, where they have so many archers supporting them, the front may more or less be equal on infantry, but the ranged  would  light them up, they'd get overrun, and they'll still have arrows leftover for the skirmishers.  Not to mention cav.  Plus, when the group gets split up, the chance they'll push straight through the middle of the (diminished) lines and capture the flags, instantly putting an end to the battle, grows.

The problem I see is that you're going to get pelted with arrows no matter what you do and if anything, clumping up just makes it better for the archers.  Unless you have a solid shield wall (lots of people with nice, big huscarl or board shields) to advance with, preferably backed up with experienced pikemen, then you might as well spread out so that at least a missed archery shot is a miss and not a hit on someone else behind you.

The risk of them rushing your flags is the same for both sides.  If you're all spread out and they suddenly clump and rush your flags, well, who's guarding their flags?  There might be an amusing situation where both sides have no flags and it's suddenly a deathmatch.


Incidentally, I think trading has done more than castles.  50 players @ 24 goods per day @ 50 gold per good = 60,000 gold per DAY for your clan.  Times 30 days is 1.8 million.  And "50 gold per good" is fairly modest, I think.

I think a lot of NA has been sitting in 1 spot, crafting and selling for ~12 gold per good when even something like Ambean -> Mechin will get you something close to 30 gold per good in profit.  (And it's really not that time consuming.  You just need a couple of dedicated "traders" who load up goods, travel somewhere good, sell them, then come back.  If you can produce goods on both sides of the trade route, so much the better.  Out of those 50 players you could probably have 40 of them be slacker AFKers with 10 as semi-active crafters, traders and quartermasters and you'd be making bank.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:00:20 am by Slamz »
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2012, 03:17:40 am »
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The problem I see is that you're going to get pelted with arrows no matter what you do and if anything, clumping up just makes it better for the archers.  Unless you have a solid shield wall (lots of people with nice, big huscarl or board shields) to advance with, preferably backed up with experienced pikemen, then you might as well spread out so that at least a missed archery shot is a miss and not a hit on someone else behind you.

The risk of them rushing your flags is the same for both sides.  If you're all spread out and they suddenly clump and rush your flags, well, who's guarding their flags?  There might be an amusing situation where both sides have no flags and it's suddenly a deathmatch.


Incidentally, I think trading has done more than castles.  50 players @ 24 goods per day @ 50 gold per good = 60,000 gold per DAY for your clan.  Times 30 days is 1.8 million.  And "50 gold per good" is fairly modest, I think.

I think a lot of NA has been sitting in 1 spot, crafting and selling for ~12 gold per good when even something like Ambean -> Mechin will get you something close to 30 gold per good in profit.  (And it's really not that time consuming.  You just need a couple of dedicated "traders" who load up goods, travel somewhere good, sell them, then come back.  If you can produce goods on both sides of the trade route, so much the better.  Out of those 50 players you could probably have 40 of them be slacker AFKers with 10 as semi-active crafters, traders and quartermasters and you'd be making bank.)
[/s]

I agree with your point.

More over if something ain't working there is no point in doing the same thing that isn't working.

Skirmishing should give chaos a bit of an advantage. It sounds like the most important thing is shutting down the range. So 3 man hunter killer teams would probably be the go.
1 shield 1 2h 1 pole. And then get chaos range hammering into the inf.


hmmmmmmmmm, on second thoughts keep clumping together and running at DRZ, you may to try surprise attack by running at them backwards and throwing your weapons to the ground at the last moment and then punching them. You will take them by surprise :D
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Offline Nebun

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2012, 03:40:39 am »
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its not all that simple, Chaos + friends, switched tactic few times, and in last battle they was fighting all spread out, not sure if it was better or worse for them

though every battle gives good experience and you improve

our guys hated your pikemen :)) they was one of our biggest problems, we didn't use to fight against so many pikes and learning something out of this too
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Offline Cicero

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2012, 03:54:45 am »
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Who was the guy that i did "this is sparta" from siege tower ?

Offline Blackzilla

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2012, 04:11:56 am »
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To be entirely honest, I completely agree with Slamz here. I could always tell that Chaos was almost entirely composed of duelists.

Not true. I am no duelist(compared to other chaos members). I'm more of a support guy.
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Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2012, 04:24:29 am »
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Youd have been signifacntly more effective defending a village. Do what you have been doing agaisnt us an pack the narrow entrnaces with pikemen. An army of pikeman is not as good in the open field when you cant bottle neck people. You already lost many of your villages but you still have 2 to defend.
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Offline JihadistMexican

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2012, 04:43:16 am »
+1
Russian archers in the first battle made me cry myself to sleep.  The NA archers in the village defense were pushovers. The field battle today vs RU made me GTX because I was just wasting tickets lol. Props to you Russkies with the high ping. You are nice than the other EU who like to troll  :D
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Offline Tanken

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2012, 05:09:23 am »
+1
our guys hated your pikemen :)) they was one of our biggest problems, we didn't use to fight against so many pikes and learning something out of this too



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« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 07:38:57 am by Tank Burner »
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Offline Matey

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2012, 06:58:15 am »
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Who was the guy that i did "this is sparta" from siege tower ?

yarrr, twas me who walked the plank.

Offline Nebun

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Re: March of the Druzhina Bears
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2012, 07:23:17 am »
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You know, Cicero did shout "THIS IS SPARTA" kicking u off that plank. Thats probably most memorable moment of the battle.
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