Slow'em down

[Rumblood]

This topic should be good for at least -10 awesome points!

Ranged got a speed nerf. That's fine, I think they way they are right now is good.

Ponies need a speed nerf for both similiar reasons, and for reasons caused by the speed nerf AND by the switch weapons speed nerf.

Basically, here's the scenario. With a horse charging at range, with a Strong or Warbow, not even the Long Bow, you get one shot at the horse just as it gets into max range. Even if it hits, it wont kill the horse, and with the total inaccuracy of archery after nerf, you can't even try legitimately at the rider and expect to hit them. As soon as you release your arrow, you try to switch out to am melee weapon (say a pike). The weapon switching is so slow, combined with the time it takes to draw back the pike and thrust forwards, that you have been overrun and killed before you can actually shoot an arrow at accuracy range for a HORSE, and then switch to melee.

A Courser with a speed of 48 is FASTER than the first 3 bows are. A horse that can outrun arrows? Man that is AWESOME!

[Chagan_Arslan]

go back on your roof troll ;p

[Tears of Destiny]

As an archer with 130 wpf, I have no problem shooting horses (And I do OS the horses that are lowly armored, just ask Air about the arrows to the horse face, or any of the other players I have done that to).

I highly reccomend you post your current archer stats here, as I am extremely curious what is going on.

For the record, I have 130 archery wpf, 30 STR, 10 PD and a standard warbow using bodkins.

What are you using?

EDIT: And yes I am taking this topic with complete seriousness. I have time to burn.

[Rumblood]

As an archer with 130 wpf, I have no problem shooting horses (And I do OS the horses that are lowly armored, just ask Air about the arrows to the horse face, or any of the other players I have done that to).

I highly reccomend you post your current archer stats here, as I am extremely curious what is going on.

For the record, I have 130 archery wpf, 30 STR, 10 PD and a standard warbow using bodkins.

What are you using?

You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow.  I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.

You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. 

[Rumblood]

By the way, this doesn't even begin to cover what happens on a Cavalry map full of Fog. Ever see those vampire movies where the victim is surrounded by fog and faster than you can see or react, those vampires come flying in, slash and fly away? It's just like that on a Heavy Fog map with Cavalry running around.

[Mullerian]

By the way, this doesn't even begin to cover what happens on a Cavalry map full of Fog. Ever see those vampire movies where the victim is surrounded by fog and faster than you can see or react, those vampires come flying in, slash and fly away? It's just like that on a Heavy Fog map with Cavalry running around.

Personally i really enjoyed the (thankfully few) maps where that happened, it did indeed feel like i was playing a horror game with horses coming out of nowhere

On topic, it seems fine as it is, when i was an archer i was usually able to hold the arrow till they got closer and just shoot them right before they hit me nearly every time.

[Noble Crassius]

The only exceptionally fast ponies I see are pure horsemen riding Champion Coursers, and when they finally get dismounted they are pure shit on the ground (See Rohpynal).

and yes fog is a horseman's best friend by default but I don't think that merits a nerf. I mean fog is a huuge disadvantage to archers but you don't see people using that as an excuse to buff em.

[Tears of Destiny]

You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow.  I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.

You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. 

Hmm, yes I agree that is should be impossible for a horse to outrun an arrow, but a headshot on a horse does deal extra damage in my experience and with my build it does one shot the lesser horses.

I also want to point out that archers should get their bum kicked one on one with a horseman, it seems reasonable considering it should be their counter, as well as that archers are a support class and thus need melee support, as well as that the horseman has a lot more gold worth of stuff.

[Patricia]

You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow.  I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.

You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. 

If he's charging you head on, aim at the head or the rider, with the speed bonus it's an almost guaranteed one hit kill unless your build is terribad.

[Gristle]

I suppose I have it a little different as a crossbowman, but when I know someone is about to try and lance me, I don't aim for the horse. I wait for the point blank shot and shoot the rider. Even if it doesn't kill him (speed bonus is huge with that shot), it will interrupt him and (should) stop his lance attack. Now, I don't have time to load another bolt if he circles around, but an archer should have time to notch another arrow and do it again. He will probably be intimidated after that first hit, and rightly so.

The worst thing that happens from doing this is when you headshot the horse instead, killing it, but still somehow get lanced as the rider falls. Not a cool trade.

[Krakatit]

In some SP mod is one interesting thing. Your horse gets slower when it have lower HP. So when it is almost dead then you move slower than on foot. Maybe we could do it here too but i like horses too much to vote for such horrible nerf

[Hirlok]

horses outrunning arrows is a joke of course, otherwise I don't care too much - if they get me, they get me, but even with PD7/8 I have oneshotted more than one pony and sometimes the rider. Just wait til they are relatively close, so you can see the ponyrider's nose plow the ground right in front of your feet after you shot his beast... ;-)

[Rumblood]

Personally i really enjoyed the (thankfully few) maps where that happened, it did indeed feel like i was playing a horror game with horses coming out of nowhere

On topic, it seems fine as it is, when i was an archer i was usually able to hold the arrow till they got closer and just shoot them right before they hit me nearly every time.

Okay, this is in response to this and Gristle. Gristle, you hit it on the head. You have a xbow that can hold its aim forever. Mullerian, you clearly haven't played an archer in the last 2-3 months. If you did, you would know that you can't hold an arrow. You need to be able to predict the time that you will actually release your arrow somewhere between 3 seconds (Fine Strong bow) and 4 seconds (Long bow). Once your reticule has completely reduced to its best accuracy, only then can you release your arrow, and you have about .25-.5 second to do it, before it expands out again slightly (but significantly when you are talking shooting at range, not point blank shots), and then maybe another second before it expands out to "Hail Mary" accuracy. You are also committing yourself to all or nothing. Either you kill the horse and dump the rider (who you still have to fight btw), hit the rider before he hits you, or 50-75% of the time you die. The Rider has the chance of losing his horse or missing you or maybe taking some damage. You wont one hit a rider without a head shot.

I still see no reason why a horse should run faster than an arrow. Perhaps the speed ratings don't translate across accurately, but I've shot my hunting bow after some running horses and they were like 2 cars on the highway together. 

[Mullerian]

Okay, this is in response to this and Gristle. Gristle, you hit it on the head. You have a xbow that can hold its aim forever. Mullerian, you clearly haven't played an archer in the last 2-3 months. If you did, you would know that you can't hold an arrow. You need to be able to predict the time that you will actually release your arrow somewhere between 3 seconds (Fine Strong bow) and 4 seconds (Long bow). Once your reticule has completely reduced to its best accuracy, only then can you release your arrow, and you have about .25-.5 second to do it, before it expands out again slightly (but significantly when you are talking shooting at range, not point blank shots), and then maybe another second before it expands out to "Hail Mary" accuracy. You are also committing yourself to all or nothing. Either you kill the horse and dump the rider (who you still have to fight btw), hit the rider before he hits you, or 50-75% of the time you die. The Rider has the chance of losing his horse or missing you or maybe taking some damage. You wont one hit a rider without a head shot.

I still see no reason why a horse should run faster than an arrow. Perhaps the speed ratings don't translate across accurately, but I've shot my hunting bow after some running horses and they were like 2 cars on the highway together. 

I did play an archer for 2 generations from gen 1 and up right after the big patch and it worked quite decently for me, so perhaps your timing is off? I know i use the right click a lot to reset the animation since im using my longbow and that isnt the fastest thing available.

[Inhumanetie]

if u can t kill the horses then aim for the guy on the horse trying to lance u, simply shoot him and it ruins his attack, easy as that

horses are only a problem when u don t see them or if u make a mistake