Bascinet: Too much weight

[Dansk viking]

Greetings people,
I'm thinking of making an archer build - during research, I came upon the bascinet-like helmet used by archers of the 14-15th century.
My plea is to lessen the weight of the bascinet to make it viable for archers, removing the huge penalty from head-armour.
I don't care if its armour-value is lowered as well...

Cheers,
DV

EDIT: Example
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Also,
On the same note: Why is the "Heraldic Mail with Tunic" heavier than "Heraldic mail", which is obviously a bigger kind of mail?
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>visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Teeth]

Or, fix the archery mechanics so that not all archers are pussies running around in no armor and 0 ps. I really wish archery reflected what it was in the medieval ages, medium armoured archers that fight in melee when enemies close in. Not sure how this could be achieved. If you would buff archery people would continue to run away and be pure archers, so there has to be some fundamental change.

Probably only possible with a lot of teamplay and archery being more of a mass volley into enemy formations thing.

[Tears of Destiny]

I'm okay with the small penalties that we have currently, as even wearing mail and such you are still viable as an archer, just a wee bit less accurate. I am certain that those depicted in that drawing also suffered from small "awkwardness" from the additional gear too.

<===----- Archer.

[Adalwulf]

Or, fix the archery mechanics so that not all archers are pussies running around in no armor and 0 ps. I really wish archery reflected what it was in the medieval ages, medium armoured archers that fight in melee when enemies close in. Not sure how this could be achieved. If you would buff archery people would continue to run away and be pure archers, so there has to be some fundamental change.

Probably only possible with a lot of teamplay and archery being more of a mass volley into enemy formations thing.

As you said only viable build that would reflect archers during this period would be the 15/21 build

[illogical]

maybe need 2 bascinet: infantry and bow/crossbow version.

[Tennenoth]

It is perfectly viable to wear heavier armour as an archer but as soon as you plonk on a helmet, good luck aiming. All helmets are too big for archers and therefore slip over the eyes... At least thats how I quantify my inaccuracy and extreme use of a straw hat!

Although I wouldn't wear any head armour and I do occasionally switch out to wearing heavier armour, such as the mail shirt (which is a mere 10 extra body armour and a loss of 4 leg armour against my Jerkin, not a very good armour/weight ratio.) due to the three times increase in head armour, I could in effect, wear the equivelent of 6 weight in head armour, so 2 weight...

That's a Nordic Huscarl's Helmet that provides 40 head armour. That's where things start to become a little unviable for really being accurate with archery given 6PD, MW Longbow & 160 wpf. Bascinet at 2.3, hitting on 6.9 weight is a further increase of .9 for 4 more armour!

As I say, I don't care and I think what we have now is fine, but I thought I would throw that out there.

[Tomas]

Well you could split the free weight limit up to instead have a different weight limit for each type of clothing/armour

Some reasonable numbers could be
Body Armour = 7
Head Armour = 3 (with items still counting triple)
Foot Armour = 4 (I see no reason for foot armour making me less accurate with anything)
Hand Armour = 0.5 (with items counting triple)

So as an archer I could wear a Studded Leather Coat, Nasal Helmet, Leather Gloves and any Boots without ever having to worry about losing wpf.  If I go over any of the limits however, the amount I break them by will be added together and my wpf loss will be caluclated based on that total value.

[haxKingdom]

maybe add another stat called helmet visibilty? Since all weight does is decrease your wpf and make you "drunk walking".

[Leshma]

I think that wpf reduction multiplier for helmets and gloves is just silly. Give archers more armor, good armor and decent weapon but nerf bow speed. I would really like to see some decent archer combinations, currently it's mostly fugly native gear. Most newer stuff has bad stats/weight ratio.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I'm okay with the small penalties that we have currently, as even wearing mail and such you are still viable as an archer, just a wee bit less accurate. I am certain that those depicted in that drawing also suffered from small "awkwardness" from the additional gear too.

<===----- Archer.

I was using Sarranid Guard armour with visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 and a HBS with horn bow and barbed arrows. With an 18/18 build 6IF 6PS 6ath 6PD 5MW 130wpf archery and 90 2h. It really worked for close support with the horn bow, it was just a shame I couldn't use the long bow

[Dansk viking]

I've made a STF character based on Þordur from the movie Hrafninn Flýgur. Just to see if I enjoy archery.
I made him 18/18 IF:5 PS:6 ATH:6 PD:6 WM:6, One-h:50 Archery:150
I would love to have a helmet like this:
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[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I think that wpf reduction multiplier for helmets and gloves is just silly. Give archers more armor, good armor and decent weapon but nerf bow speed. I would really like to see some decent archer combinations, currently it's mostly fugly native gear. Most newer stuff has bad stats/weight ratio.

Leshma, I disapprove of nerfing bow speed, nerf archers ability to eternally run...

[rustyspoon]

I don't care if its armour-value is lowered as well...

Don't lower the armor on my beloved bascinet!

Also, the weight multiplicator on head armor is somewhat realistic. Have you ever worn a metal helmet? It's not that comfortable.

[Dansk viking]

I see your point.
I'm currently using both heraldic chainmail and bascinet - having no problems whatsoever.
What are the main modifiers of wpf anyway? Damage/accuracy?

[_Sebastian_]

Many Items in crpg dont have realistic weights.
For example;
Longbow = 1.7kg (~0.8kg would be realistic)
quiver with 24 arrows = 5.0kg (~1.5kg would be realistic)

These items are that heavy to slow down archers.
But since there are some new operations in the module system it is possible to slow down archers in a better way.
   |
   |
 \|/

Or, fix the archery mechanics so that not all archers are pussies running around in no armor and 0 ps.

It is possible to slow down archers only if they move while they draw their bow and move with the drawn bow.

So this is what I did in my own mod.
It also affects xbows and muskets.
...This is just an example for you developers
This goes in module_mission_templates.py

Code: [Select]

#limit moving speed
moving_speed_limiter = (
  0.5, 0, 0,
  [
    (try_for_agents, ":agent"),
      (agent_is_alive, ":agent"),
      (agent_is_human, ":agent"),
      (agent_get_horse, ":horse", ":agent"),
      (le, ":horse", 0),
      (agent_get_wielded_item, ":weapon", ":agent"),
      (ge, ":weapon", 0),
      (item_get_type, ":weapon_type", ":weapon"),
      (agent_get_attack_action, ":attack_action", ":agent"),
      (try_begin),
        (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 1),#readying_attack
        (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 2),#releasing_attack
        (eq, ":attack_action", 5),#reloading
        (try_begin),
          (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_bow),
          (agent_set_speed_modifier, ":agent", 60),
        (else_try),
          (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_crossbow),
          (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_musket),
          (agent_set_speed_modifier, ":agent", 70),
        (try_end),
      (else_try),
        (agent_set_speed_modifier, ":agent", 100),
      (try_end),
    (try_end),
  ], [])