Armor & Weapon Proficiency Reduction

[Dunecat]

Thank you.

[Torp]

there is already a topic where it is explained

[krampe]

As far as i remember the calculator pre patch the loss of wpf wasn't linear, when you had a very high wpf value your armor affected it less.

[Xant]

"I've confirmed that Two-Handed proficiency is reduced by armor using a time trial; tested 3 times for each:
Quote
58 swings in 60 seconds with 38.1 weight from armor
59 swings in 60 seconds with 0 weight from armor"

Wow that seems like an extremely small difference, considering 38.1 weight would be like black armor and stuff. Like.

[Khalim]

I think Wpf reduction on armour is stupid. Currently I do a peasentrush(lv31) on CRPG1 and I REALLY have a better k/d ration, then playing with normal gear!
Without armour you are incredible fast and can kill several people at once. That is rediculous, considering, taht I wear armour worth of <100!

Slowing down movementspeed is okay, but reducing wpf is just stupid and unfair. It might be okay if genreal armourprices are cut to 1/2 or 1/4.

[WaltF4]

Wow that seems like an extremely small difference, considering 38.1 weight would be like black armor and stuff. Like.

Gafferjack is seeing a 1.7% difference in time per attack between being naked and wearing close to maximum possible armor weight. He appears to have run the test with a very fast weapon and with a relatively low weapon proficiency, both of which minimize the absolute difference in time per attack one would expect to see with different armor weights. The absolute difference in time per attack would be greater for a slower weapon, and the absolute difference and relative difference in time per attack would be greater for a character with higher weapon proficiency.

In fact, his results are entirely consistent with what my equations for time per attack verses proficiency would predict for a character with 98 two handed weapon proficiency wielding a ~102 speed weapon naked compared to wearing an armet, milanese plate, cased greaves, and heavy gauntlets. Gafferjack, please let me know if I am incorrect on any of that.

The following plot had been updated with the additional data points for weapon proficiency and armor weight Gafferjack has provided.

(click to show/hide)

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The stair-step patterns are likely the result of rounding. A small improvement in the data fitting can be made using these updated equations:

armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.008 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7.5

[Gafferjack]

Thanks for using those points, Walt. I'll have a few more differing WPF data points and some preliminary Archery data soon.

In fact, his results are entirely consistent with what my equations for time per attack verses proficiency would predict for a character with 98 two handed weapon proficiency wielding a ~102 speed weapon naked compared to wearing an armet, milanese plate, cased greaves, and heavy gauntlets. Gafferjack, please let me know if I am incorrect on any of that.

I had 110-114 WPF in 2H, and was using a Spiked Mace (100 speed). I can't recall the exact WPF number; I didn't record it, either.

[Byrdi]

Reallly awesome, had no idea that there wasnt a crossbow penalty

[corto]

great work, but a question:

is the 7.7 the weight thresholt for melee&throwing, or is it same for archery? i know that the effect of armor is bigger in archery than in melee/throwing, but what is the weight i can equip that does not affect my wpf?

and could u pls tell me the effective weight bevore beeing multiplied of:

helmet with 0.25 in itemshop , 0.3 displayed ingame = ? 
and a armor with 4.5


thx in advance,
hunnicut

[Tai Feng]

I think Wpf reduction on armour is stupid. Currently I do a peasentrush(lv31) on CRPG1 and I REALLY have a better k/d ration, then playing with normal gear!
Without armour you are incredible fast and can kill several people at once. That is rediculous, considering, taht I wear armour worth of <100!

Slowing down movementspeed is okay, but reducing wpf is just stupid and unfair. It might be okay if genreal armourprices are cut to 1/2 or 1/4.

Wpf reduction made sense before upkeep as a way to make plate have at least some disadvantage. Now with upkeep this wpf reduction is pointless and should be removed.

[corto]

with upkeep this wpf reduction is pointless and should be removed.

it's not just the upkeep that balances armor,  even more the movement speed that u have with hvy armor is so slow in comparison to a lightweight char..

if u wear full plate and want to facehug&hammer, there will be an archer/crossbowman who thanks god for such a slow moving target.

be light and get sliced or be heavy and get nailed. i call it balance.

quiz:
helmet with 0.25 in itemshop , 0.3 displayed ingame = ?
is the 7.7 the weight thresholt for melee&throwing, or is it same for archery? 

[Paroxysm]

Very nice stuff, good to know. But can someone research the weight/movement speed reduction (not attack speed, but movement which seems highly dependent on weight)? I'd really like to know if there's a weight threshold or if it's purely linear

[Gafferjack]

I apologize for neglecting this thread; I've suffered a recent case of burnout from cRPG, so I haven't been as productive as I would have hoped.

Helmet with 0.25 in itemshop , 0.3 displayed ingame = ? 
and an armor with 4.5

The helmet would be multiplied by 3 of the in-game number, so it would be effective weight 0.9; the torso slot is added to the effective weight without a multiplier. The effective weight in this case would be 5.4, so you wouldn't have your WPF reduced.

Is the weight threshold for melee & throwing, or is it same for archery? ...What is the weight I can equip that does not affect my WPF?

My recent tests have shown somewhere under 7.3 effective weight but above 6.7 effective weight being the limit before you start to reduce your WPF; the number is probably 7 effective weight. As for the archery question, I intend to find this out with my next batch of testing.

...can someone research the weight/movement speed reduction (I'd really like to know if there's a weight threshold or if it's purely linear).

It's my personal belief that movespeed reduction from weight is purely linear, but I haven't actually done any testing to prove otherwise; I've only made observations based from the weight I was carrying while fighting. There's also the fact that your movespeed appears to be penalized even when you drop heavy equipment (like 3 siege shields); it's likely that Warband doesn't do speed & weight all that well.

[corto]

thx gafferjack

[Gafferjack]

A few things.

The new patch has made Crossbow WPF become reduced while wearing armor. There was a noticeable difference in the accuracy of my crossbow when naked, compared to when I was wearing armor. I also fired off less bolts in a 60 second time trial when I was wearing armor, compared to when I was naked. Once I retire again, I can do a test build and start getting some data points.

As for Archery, I found it difficult to ascertain whether or not my accuracy decrease while wearing armor was from a WPF penalty, or from a lesser WPF penalty + a reduction in Power Draw. If anyone has some insight into this, I'd appreciate the help. Otherwise, I don't think I'll be testing Archery; archers will have to either conduct their own testing or try to eyeball it as best they can.