Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow

[Fluffy_Muffin]

With 1 wpf its way inaccurate to be used for great effect, from my experience i more often see builds wich have more xbow wpf and sacrafice the mele weapon wpf, not the other way around.

[Hirlok]

With 1 wpf its way inaccurate to be used for great effect,

respectfully disagree. I have tested it several times. Recently, I was playing with my alt char (2H +  a few points in throwing), grabbed a "sniper crossbow" and some steel bolts from the floor, and took up the same position that I often take with my main char (>130 WPF archer with triple-heirloomed warbow...). That castle with the flag in the middle on top of the building with the long winding stairs around the building.
Mid-range shooting on moving targets on the outer wall - there were just a few bolts left, but I had 60% hits and 2 kills. Definitely better than most reasonably skilled archers will achieve in that position.
The only thing that is a real pain with 1 WPF is not the accuracy, but the reloading time, that takes half the round... ;-)

So xbows are exactly the same that they were in reality: a very efficient and accurate weapon for peasants and other skill-less bastards.
In the middle ages there were actually discussions to ban that weapon, like we today talk about cluster bombs and landmines.

So: xbows ARE a pain in the ass, and we have to cope with that. Only thing that I would suggest is a great idea from another thread: make upkeep costs depend on WPF, so if you use a weapon that you have no skill for, it will more likely break and be more expensive.
Tthat would limit the xbow-sidearm plague a bit.

[Heroin]

Only thing that I would suggest is a great idea from another thread: make upkeep costs depend on WPF, so if you use a weapon that you have no skill for, it will more likely break and be more expensive.
Tthat would limit the xbow-sidearm plague a bit.

I doubt this would accomplish anything, since the vast majority of xbow users HAVE xbow wpf. The core of the problem, right now, is that there is no reason NOT to be a hybrid. On one of my recent builds, I gave up only ~10 wpf in my main weapon to get ~100 wpf in a secondary weapon.

I believe that if they make wpf scale the same way it did pre-patch, without the wpf bonuses from retirement, we will see more specialists, less hybrids, and in effect, less ranged spam in general. It also won't allow people to get to wpf levels that "break the game", contrary to what several people on the forums would have you believe.

[Fasader]

if by ~10 you mean 20 then yes.

[Heroin]

if by ~10 you mean 20 then yes.

If you're talking about lower levels of WM(4ish), yes. At higher levels of WM, you give up only a few points to get wpf in another weapon. For instance, at 9 WM, if you give up 10 wpf from your main weapon, you get exactly 90 wpf in a secondary weapon. Even at lower WM levels(4); giving up 10 points in your primary weapon gives a pretty decent amount(67 wpf) in a secondary weapon.

[Fasader]

No, I'm talking about a reasonable build, 10 for 100 works only at 211 to 221 which can be done at lvl 31 if you convert everything and only level weapon master.

[Dravic]

Then he will convert 17 wpf from main weapon. Big difference, 163 wpf instead of 180.

[Fasader]

Difference in 10 and 17 is 7 which is 70% of what he suggested. If he said ~15 then yes, I could live with that. Playing some 12str build that can work.

[Heroin]

Difference in 10 and 17 is 7 which is 70% of what he suggested. If he said ~15 then yes, I could live with that. Playing some 12str build that can work.

~100 means "about 100". I was referring to a recent 9 WM build I made, in which I gave up 10 wpf in my main weapon to get 90 in a secondary weapon. Check the math. It works.

btw, the build was exactly as follows:

Level 30
8 points converted
IF: 1
PS: 4
ATH: 9
WM: 9

Two Handed: 170 WPF
Xbow: 90 WPF

[Fasader]

would be 170 and 85, you got wrong numbers :x I'm just pointing out that you like to round up making it look far worse than it is.

[Heroin]

would be 170 and 85, you got wrong numbers :x I'm just pointing out that you like to round up making it look far worse than it is.

The WPF calculator says 170 and 90 with 2 points left over. It might be slightly off, but since I don't currently have the build, I can't double check it. I'm not rounding up. I'm just using the only tools I have available to me, which just happen to be unofficial, since pretty much anything useful is unofficial when it comes to crpg.

[Gafferjack]

I posted a while ago in Vargas' thread about his WPF inaccuracies here. For some reason, he never updated his calculator.

[Fasader]

well the WPF calc is wrong, I told you the correct value, it's 85 :-| if 85 to 100 isn't rounding up I don't know what is.

edit: another thing, with 180 wpf at those stats you have 8 points left to spend so it would actually be 82 if you don't use those.
Or increase from 9 to 85 if you do use them (that's 76).

[Cup1d]

sorry bro

1h sword
1h axe
1h mace
1h pick
2h sword
2h axe
2h maul
2h mace
staff
poleaxe
spear
hafted blade
hafted mace


bow
crossbow
throwing axe
throwing knife
javelin

And what did you want to say with this list of weapons?

All characters have 6 way to improve his weapon mastery. 3 of them melee, other 3 ranged.

One Handed   
Two Handed   
Polearm
Archery   
Crossbow
Throwing

I think it simple enough to understand.

[Nemeth]

So ranged is half of the game. That only supports Goraths argument. Do you think developers' main focus was on the melee and then they just filled the other half of the game with ranged? Doesn't make much sense, does it? You have equal melee/ranged wpf possibility, only brain-dead people can conclude that main focus is melee from that.