I kill horses

[Rumblood]

That's what I do. All the time. It's my game. So let me talk about horses.

There are two types of horses for me. Armored and Naked. They are totally different and should be balanced seperately.

Pre-patch, Armored Horse were balanced. They were the sound of plodding inevitability. Slow, so you can mostly maneuver around them, nearly indestuctible so you get trampled and can't do anything about it (to the horse). Cost in Gold is very high and Upkeep is as well. King of Defensive attacks. You could still kill them with a headshot, but if you didn't you would eventually get trampled to death.

The latest patch makes them a joke. I feel bad for them given the expense.


Pre-patch, Naked Horses were overpowered. The low end horses were overpowered by far. They are fast, maneuverable, cheap in terms of gold and upkeep, and cheap in terms of skill requirements. Their speed allows them to move in and out of a scrum with minimal exposure to ranged attack. Usually an archer will get 1 shot on the incoming charge, and maybe 1 shot outgoing at most.
The speed and maneuverability is great enough that ranged can't strafe out of the way without 6+ Athletics unless you start strafing while the horse is far enough away for the rider to change course (and get you). These horses are nearly as tough as the armored ones when it comes to how many arrows it takes to bring them down. LIES! You say? I'm certain the geeks with their numbers can show how AxB/1.5*Y^3 > Jello, but I know about how many arrows it takes in the field actually using the game engine for calculations. It takes the same number of arrows to bring down an Armored Horse as it does a Naked Horse when they are charging at you. LIES! No, not lies. Due to the Speed bonus, and (my opinion here) the larger head on the armored horses, I am just as likely to kill the Cataphract as the Rouncey.

If you know GrannPappy, you know how I got these opinions. I spawn, I walk out into the middle of an open field, and I dare cavalry to take me on. Not crunching numbers or sniping from rooftops.

Armored Cavalry needs a buff in terms of damage it can take. Do not mess with speed or maneuverability. Just make them the tanks they are supposed to be.

Naked Cavalry needs a serious nerf on the low end, and a mild one in the middle. They are the fastest, most maneuverable, AND can take nearly as many hits from ranged before going down. They can accelerate nearly instantly and rotate on a stripper pole. They are cheap in terms of gold and skills. Lose a Cataphract on the field and you are walking or finding an inferior ride. Naked Cavalry is so cheap and plentiful, there is almost always another one you can just whistle up and take off again!



TLDR; - Buff Armored Cavalry, Nerf Naked Cavalry

[polkafranzi]

TLDR; - Buff Armored Cavalry, Nerf Naked Cavalry

+1, +0

Armored horses are a joke, my champ PC dies like a fly at the slightest contact (and i pay 4,5k per round for that privelage alone).  Blame ranged for all that QQ they did.

[Penitent]

TLDR; - Buff Armored Cavalry, Nerf Naked Cavalry

+1, +0

ALL cav got nerfed pretty bad the last patch...even more fragile now.  I don't think a futher nerf is needed for light cav (rouncey's and coursers can be 1-shot by melee).  A buff is definitely in order for heavy cav, and perhaps for all cav.

[Hobb]

since the patch my champ courser dies at a max of 4 body shots (from a normal powerful archer of course) but a dies from 1 head shot, and now dies from 1 to 2 leg shot as well. If anything heavy horses need more body armor so they get more glances and can take more hits, and light horses need more hit points

but honestly i think it is pretty balanced overall

[Rumblood]

ALL cav got nerfed pretty bad the last patch...even more fragile now.  I don't think a futher nerf is needed for light cav (rouncey's and coursers can be 1-shot by melee).  A buff is definitely in order for heavy cav, and perhaps for all cav.

I would be down with Buff Armored, leave the Mid-Tier alone, and nerf the bottom tier (riding 3 and below).

[Penitent]

since the patch my champ courser dies...from 1 head shot, and now dies from 1 to 2 leg shot

I would be down with Buff Armored, leave the Mid-Tier alone, and nerf the bottom tier (riding 3 and below).

I dont see how dying from 1 or 2 leg shots is very unbalanced for a champ courser, and call for a buff.

You think bottom tier horses should be nerfed even more?  Why is a 1-shot not weak enough?  I think the latest cav nerf should be reversed and the then whole game is balanced.  Then devs can work on bugs and introducing new equipment only.

[Rumblood]

I dont see how dying from 1 or 2 leg shots is very unbalanced for a champ courser, and call for a buff.

You think bottom tier horses should be nerfed even more?  Why is a 1-shot not weak enough?  I think the latest cav nerf should be reversed and the then whole game is balanced.  Then devs can work on bugs and introducing new equipment only.

Absolutely. And GTFO of my thread with bullshit one-liners like "Why is a 1-shot not weak enough" because you clearly can't be assed to discuss the issue objectively. I don't want to have to explain the hundred different variables that effect how damage is applied in this game and why statements like that don't belong in an actual balance discussion. (in case you don't get it, there isnt a horse out there that is a "1-shot" horse)

The only reason a player on a low tier horse should do better than a player on a mid-tier or upper-tier horse is skill. That ain't the case here. It takes a skilled player to do well with an armored snail, while anyone (including me) can just hop on a low tier horse and assrape with glee.

[Aleskander]

What?
My rouncey typically dies withing 3 shots if I'm lucky, and get's one shotted by pretty much all melee. In order to get kills I have to prey on late spawners or kill stragglers.  I see destriers that take 10 arrows to kill all the time, and those are technically only medium horses. As an archer you see heavy horses as UP because they are large and slow. You think that the lighter horses as OP because they are fast and smaller. Besides, heavy cav and light cav serve different purposes, light cav is meant for specifically lancing, while heavy cav can fight in melee as well as lance(not as well as light because of the speed difference). If what you say is true, that you get your results by sitting in a field and shooting at cav while they come to you. I literally could not think of a worse way to get information in a battle. No archer will stand in the middle of a field during a round. And that is bullshit about light cav being able to turn on a dime, that only works if the horse is close or very close to stationary. I have never seen a heavy horse get killed in one shot by a bow or crossbow to the head.

Naked Cavalry needs a serious nerf on the low end, and a mild one in the middle. They are the fastest, most maneuverable, AND can take nearly as many hits from ranged before going down. They can accelerate nearly instantly and rotate on a stripper pole.

XD
Nice one there

[Penitent]

Absolutely. And GTFO of my thread with bullshit one-liners like "Why is a 1-shot not weak enough" because you clearly can't be assed to discuss the issue objectively. I don't want to have to explain the hundred different variables that effect how damage is applied in this game and why statements like that don't belong in an actual balance discussion. (in case you don't get it, there isnt a horse out there that is a "1-shot" horse)

I don't know why you are taking a hostile position towards my comment, or why you think I'm not discussing this objectively, or why you think I don't know how damage is applied in game, or why you think I'm not aware of the variables that contribute to this damage.  The most important variable here is speed bonus.  I'm saying that if a mid-tier horse (Courser, Destrier) or a heavy horse (anything armored) is being one-shot with a melee weapon, even with a speed bonus, it is too weak and calls for a buff.  I don't know why anyone would want to make them weaker.

If lower tier horses are already being 1-shot with a speed bonus but multi-shot without one, I don't know why you'd want to make them weaker than that.  It doesn't make sense to me.

Most horses get hit with a speed bonus, because most riders need to keep moving to stay alive, so its important to consider this.

[polkafranzi]

Most horses get hit with a speed bonus, because most riders need to keep moving to live.

Whereas an archer can just stand in 1 spot, aim, and click 

My arabian warhorse is dying to 1-3 arrows every round.  It's just gotten silly, because here is my alt, a 2her, in peasant gear on eu2 last week, taking 6 arrows to the limbs and still has 15-20% left, why he so strong? Why horsey so weak? Oh yeh, ranged and inf QQ, i forgot. 

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Taken: Feb 16, 2012 @ 6:47pm

[San]

This is my first cav character, starting him after the "cav nerf." Right now I'm on a simple Rouncey, and it takes so many hits, it's ridiculous. It usually takes 4-5 shots to kill it. Xbows take 2-3 shots. I rarely get one shot unless I run carelessly near melee (where it still gets 2-3 hit anyways) or a strong/pure xbow got a really good shot on me. Even then, my character feels much more vulnerable than my horse as far as taking damage goes, anyways (get 1shot by xbow body shots more often than the horse). I also have high riding, so it's super fast and maneuverable (from my point of view, not used to using high-end horses since I've always been infantry in crpg).

Even then, there were still times I crashed into a wall near melee and went away with little damage or like 1/2 hp damage.


I've only used an armored horse a few times, but they still feel pretty difficult to dehorse as far as ranged goes. On my anti-cav infantry, it feels nice to actually kill the cav with a teammate more often if he's stopped.

I think the leg damage thing is pretty dumb. I think the head should be more fragile and have a proper hurtbox that fits the size of the head.

[Gurnisson]

Heavy horses are pretty much useless now.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

I'd like to see unarmoured horses manouver ability reduced and the bump width to be reduced.

[polkafranzi]

This is my first cav character, starting him after the "cav nerf." Right now I'm on a simple Rouncey, and it takes so many hits, it's ridiculous. It usually takes 4-5 shots to kill it. Xbows take 2-3 shots.

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[_Tak_]

This is my first cav character, starting him after the "cav nerf." Right now I'm on a simple Rouncey, and it takes so many hits, it's ridiculous. It usually takes 4-5 shots to kill it. Xbows take 2-3 shots. I rarely get one shot unless I run carelessly near melee (where it still gets 2-3 hit anyways) or a strong/pure xbow got a really good shot on me. Even then, my character feels much more vulnerable than my horse as far as taking damage goes, anyways (get 1shot by xbow body shots more often than the horse). I also have high riding, so it's super fast and maneuverable (from my point of view, not used to using high-end horses since I've always been infantry in crpg).

Even then, there were still times I crashed into a wall near melee and went away with little damage or like 1/2 hp damage.


I've only used an armored horse a few times, but they still feel pretty difficult to dehorse as far as ranged goes. On my anti-cav infantry, it feels nice to actually kill the cav with a teammate more often if he's stopped.

I think the leg damage thing is pretty dumb. I think the head should be more fragile and have a proper hurtbox that fits the size of the head.

It depends on which bow they are using, how many PD they have and what kind of crossbow they are using.

if you have time, get a friend, tell him to equip a arbalest + steel bot, shoot your rouncey , see how many hp left. rouncey will lose about 70%- 90% hp depend on the angle you shoot. 2 shot from long bow can kill a rouncey, maybe 2-3 from rus bow.

Champ Destrier can at least survive 3 pike thrust, while rouncey can only hold 1-2 . Again if you have a higher riding, the more chance your horse will survive, please do some testing before complaining it